Find the minimum of $MA + MB$ when $M$ is on the circle [closed]

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Let be a circle of radius $1$ and center $O$. Consider the points $A$ and $B$ such that $OA=OB$. Find $M$ on the circle such that $ MA + MB$ to be minimum. Actually I am looking for a synthetic solutions, using a construction. I tried with analytic methods but it isn't the best way and to make some inversions too.







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closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mohammad Riazi-Kermani, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz, max_zorn Aug 1 at 5:53


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • isn't it the point where perpendicular bisector of points A and B meet the circle?
    – emil
    Jul 31 at 14:03














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down vote

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Let be a circle of radius $1$ and center $O$. Consider the points $A$ and $B$ such that $OA=OB$. Find $M$ on the circle such that $ MA + MB$ to be minimum. Actually I am looking for a synthetic solutions, using a construction. I tried with analytic methods but it isn't the best way and to make some inversions too.







share|cite|improve this question













closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mohammad Riazi-Kermani, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz, max_zorn Aug 1 at 5:53


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • isn't it the point where perpendicular bisector of points A and B meet the circle?
    – emil
    Jul 31 at 14:03












up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











Let be a circle of radius $1$ and center $O$. Consider the points $A$ and $B$ such that $OA=OB$. Find $M$ on the circle such that $ MA + MB$ to be minimum. Actually I am looking for a synthetic solutions, using a construction. I tried with analytic methods but it isn't the best way and to make some inversions too.







share|cite|improve this question













Let be a circle of radius $1$ and center $O$. Consider the points $A$ and $B$ such that $OA=OB$. Find $M$ on the circle such that $ MA + MB$ to be minimum. Actually I am looking for a synthetic solutions, using a construction. I tried with analytic methods but it isn't the best way and to make some inversions too.









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edited Jul 31 at 14:03









amWhy

189k25219431




189k25219431









asked Jul 31 at 13:55









rafa

418112




418112




closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mohammad Riazi-Kermani, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz, max_zorn Aug 1 at 5:53


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.




closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mohammad Riazi-Kermani, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz, max_zorn Aug 1 at 5:53


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, John Ma, Mostafa Ayaz
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.











  • isn't it the point where perpendicular bisector of points A and B meet the circle?
    – emil
    Jul 31 at 14:03
















  • isn't it the point where perpendicular bisector of points A and B meet the circle?
    – emil
    Jul 31 at 14:03















isn't it the point where perpendicular bisector of points A and B meet the circle?
– emil
Jul 31 at 14:03




isn't it the point where perpendicular bisector of points A and B meet the circle?
– emil
Jul 31 at 14:03










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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up vote
1
down vote













  • $MA+MB=k$ where $k$ is a constant is an ellipse of foci $A,B$

  • The big axis of the ellipse is supported by line $(AB)$

  • Since $OA=OB$ then the small axis is also the perpendicular bissector of $[AB]$

For now let just consider the easy case when $[AB]$ is outside the circle (like in emil's figure).



For $k$ small the ellipse and the circle of centre $O$ have no intersection.



  • When $k$ is growing the ellipse and circle will intersect, for the minimal $k$, they will be tangent to each other at a point $colorgreenM_1$ on the small axis.

enter image description here



You can also visualize a similar problem here:



minimal distance between two points and point on a plane



The cases where the segment is inside or intersect the circle seems more complicated.



  • For instance when $O$ is the middle of the segment and it is inside the circle (case $[CD]$) then when $k$ grows the tangency will happen in $colorpurpleM_2$ on the big axis this time.


  • But if the points are outside the circle (case $[EF]$) then the minimal $k$ is reached for the degenerated flat ellipse $k=EF$ and $mathbfM_4$ is just one of the two intersection points of the segment with the circle.


  • The remaining cases seem even more complicated and I feel that analytic solution is the only way... For instance the point $colororangeM_3$ does not seem to have any particular property.






share|cite|improve this answer






























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    Say, $OA=OB=x$, also $A,B$ subtend an angle of $2theta$ on the center of the circle. Construct a perependicular bisector for points $A,B$. Point $M$ should be on the constructed perpendicular. Let $P$ be the point where $AB$ meet perpendicular bisector. So$$ AP=xsintheta$$ $$PM =|xcostheta-1| $$ $$AM=sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$
    $$AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$



    P.S. When points $A, B$ lie inside of the circle, same proof can be used. Only difference is,$PM =1-xcostheta $. This is why I put modulus value for $PM.$



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • $A$ and $B$ are fixed
      – rafa
      Jul 31 at 14:20










    • Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
      – emil
      Jul 31 at 14:45











    • If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
      – Jens
      Jul 31 at 15:04










    • That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
      – emil
      Jul 31 at 15:16

















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    This solution is valid only if $A$ and $B$ lie outside the circle. If segment $AB$ intersects the circle, $M$ is obviously either intersection point.



    Suppose then $AB$ doesn't intersect the circle: in that case $M$ is the nearest intersection between the circle and the perpendicular bisector of $AB$, such that the circle and $AB$ are on opposite sides with respect to the tangent $t$ at $M$.



    Proof.



    Let $A'$ be the reflection of $A$ about $t$: then $M$ is the midpoint of $A'B$. If $N$ is any other point on $t$, different from $M$, then $AN+BN>AM+BM$, because:
    $$
    AN+BN=A'N+BN>A'B=A'M+BM=AM+BM,
    $$
    where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $A'BN$.
    Let now $P$ be a point on the circle, different from $M$. Segment $PB$ will intersect $t$ at some point $Q$ and:
    $$
    AP+BP=AP+PQ+BQ>AQ+BQge AM+BM,
    $$
    where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $APQ$ and used the result proved above.



    enter image description here






    share|cite|improve this answer






























      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      1
      down vote













      • $MA+MB=k$ where $k$ is a constant is an ellipse of foci $A,B$

      • The big axis of the ellipse is supported by line $(AB)$

      • Since $OA=OB$ then the small axis is also the perpendicular bissector of $[AB]$

      For now let just consider the easy case when $[AB]$ is outside the circle (like in emil's figure).



      For $k$ small the ellipse and the circle of centre $O$ have no intersection.



      • When $k$ is growing the ellipse and circle will intersect, for the minimal $k$, they will be tangent to each other at a point $colorgreenM_1$ on the small axis.

      enter image description here



      You can also visualize a similar problem here:



      minimal distance between two points and point on a plane



      The cases where the segment is inside or intersect the circle seems more complicated.



      • For instance when $O$ is the middle of the segment and it is inside the circle (case $[CD]$) then when $k$ grows the tangency will happen in $colorpurpleM_2$ on the big axis this time.


      • But if the points are outside the circle (case $[EF]$) then the minimal $k$ is reached for the degenerated flat ellipse $k=EF$ and $mathbfM_4$ is just one of the two intersection points of the segment with the circle.


      • The remaining cases seem even more complicated and I feel that analytic solution is the only way... For instance the point $colororangeM_3$ does not seem to have any particular property.






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        • $MA+MB=k$ where $k$ is a constant is an ellipse of foci $A,B$

        • The big axis of the ellipse is supported by line $(AB)$

        • Since $OA=OB$ then the small axis is also the perpendicular bissector of $[AB]$

        For now let just consider the easy case when $[AB]$ is outside the circle (like in emil's figure).



        For $k$ small the ellipse and the circle of centre $O$ have no intersection.



        • When $k$ is growing the ellipse and circle will intersect, for the minimal $k$, they will be tangent to each other at a point $colorgreenM_1$ on the small axis.

        enter image description here



        You can also visualize a similar problem here:



        minimal distance between two points and point on a plane



        The cases where the segment is inside or intersect the circle seems more complicated.



        • For instance when $O$ is the middle of the segment and it is inside the circle (case $[CD]$) then when $k$ grows the tangency will happen in $colorpurpleM_2$ on the big axis this time.


        • But if the points are outside the circle (case $[EF]$) then the minimal $k$ is reached for the degenerated flat ellipse $k=EF$ and $mathbfM_4$ is just one of the two intersection points of the segment with the circle.


        • The remaining cases seem even more complicated and I feel that analytic solution is the only way... For instance the point $colororangeM_3$ does not seem to have any particular property.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          • $MA+MB=k$ where $k$ is a constant is an ellipse of foci $A,B$

          • The big axis of the ellipse is supported by line $(AB)$

          • Since $OA=OB$ then the small axis is also the perpendicular bissector of $[AB]$

          For now let just consider the easy case when $[AB]$ is outside the circle (like in emil's figure).



          For $k$ small the ellipse and the circle of centre $O$ have no intersection.



          • When $k$ is growing the ellipse and circle will intersect, for the minimal $k$, they will be tangent to each other at a point $colorgreenM_1$ on the small axis.

          enter image description here



          You can also visualize a similar problem here:



          minimal distance between two points and point on a plane



          The cases where the segment is inside or intersect the circle seems more complicated.



          • For instance when $O$ is the middle of the segment and it is inside the circle (case $[CD]$) then when $k$ grows the tangency will happen in $colorpurpleM_2$ on the big axis this time.


          • But if the points are outside the circle (case $[EF]$) then the minimal $k$ is reached for the degenerated flat ellipse $k=EF$ and $mathbfM_4$ is just one of the two intersection points of the segment with the circle.


          • The remaining cases seem even more complicated and I feel that analytic solution is the only way... For instance the point $colororangeM_3$ does not seem to have any particular property.






          share|cite|improve this answer















          • $MA+MB=k$ where $k$ is a constant is an ellipse of foci $A,B$

          • The big axis of the ellipse is supported by line $(AB)$

          • Since $OA=OB$ then the small axis is also the perpendicular bissector of $[AB]$

          For now let just consider the easy case when $[AB]$ is outside the circle (like in emil's figure).



          For $k$ small the ellipse and the circle of centre $O$ have no intersection.



          • When $k$ is growing the ellipse and circle will intersect, for the minimal $k$, they will be tangent to each other at a point $colorgreenM_1$ on the small axis.

          enter image description here



          You can also visualize a similar problem here:



          minimal distance between two points and point on a plane



          The cases where the segment is inside or intersect the circle seems more complicated.



          • For instance when $O$ is the middle of the segment and it is inside the circle (case $[CD]$) then when $k$ grows the tangency will happen in $colorpurpleM_2$ on the big axis this time.


          • But if the points are outside the circle (case $[EF]$) then the minimal $k$ is reached for the degenerated flat ellipse $k=EF$ and $mathbfM_4$ is just one of the two intersection points of the segment with the circle.


          • The remaining cases seem even more complicated and I feel that analytic solution is the only way... For instance the point $colororangeM_3$ does not seem to have any particular property.







          share|cite|improve this answer















          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Jul 31 at 21:54


























          answered Jul 31 at 21:12









          zwim

          11k527




          11k527




















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              Say, $OA=OB=x$, also $A,B$ subtend an angle of $2theta$ on the center of the circle. Construct a perependicular bisector for points $A,B$. Point $M$ should be on the constructed perpendicular. Let $P$ be the point where $AB$ meet perpendicular bisector. So$$ AP=xsintheta$$ $$PM =|xcostheta-1| $$ $$AM=sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$
              $$AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$



              P.S. When points $A, B$ lie inside of the circle, same proof can be used. Only difference is,$PM =1-xcostheta $. This is why I put modulus value for $PM.$



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer























              • $A$ and $B$ are fixed
                – rafa
                Jul 31 at 14:20










              • Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 14:45











              • If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
                – Jens
                Jul 31 at 15:04










              • That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 15:16














              up vote
              0
              down vote













              Say, $OA=OB=x$, also $A,B$ subtend an angle of $2theta$ on the center of the circle. Construct a perependicular bisector for points $A,B$. Point $M$ should be on the constructed perpendicular. Let $P$ be the point where $AB$ meet perpendicular bisector. So$$ AP=xsintheta$$ $$PM =|xcostheta-1| $$ $$AM=sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$
              $$AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$



              P.S. When points $A, B$ lie inside of the circle, same proof can be used. Only difference is,$PM =1-xcostheta $. This is why I put modulus value for $PM.$



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer























              • $A$ and $B$ are fixed
                – rafa
                Jul 31 at 14:20










              • Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 14:45











              • If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
                – Jens
                Jul 31 at 15:04










              • That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 15:16












              up vote
              0
              down vote










              up vote
              0
              down vote









              Say, $OA=OB=x$, also $A,B$ subtend an angle of $2theta$ on the center of the circle. Construct a perependicular bisector for points $A,B$. Point $M$ should be on the constructed perpendicular. Let $P$ be the point where $AB$ meet perpendicular bisector. So$$ AP=xsintheta$$ $$PM =|xcostheta-1| $$ $$AM=sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$
              $$AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$



              P.S. When points $A, B$ lie inside of the circle, same proof can be used. Only difference is,$PM =1-xcostheta $. This is why I put modulus value for $PM.$



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer















              Say, $OA=OB=x$, also $A,B$ subtend an angle of $2theta$ on the center of the circle. Construct a perependicular bisector for points $A,B$. Point $M$ should be on the constructed perpendicular. Let $P$ be the point where $AB$ meet perpendicular bisector. So$$ AP=xsintheta$$ $$PM =|xcostheta-1| $$ $$AM=sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$
              $$AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-2xcostheta +1$$



              P.S. When points $A, B$ lie inside of the circle, same proof can be used. Only difference is,$PM =1-xcostheta $. This is why I put modulus value for $PM.$



              enter image description here







              share|cite|improve this answer















              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Jul 31 at 15:53


























              answered Jul 31 at 14:13









              emil

              314210




              314210











              • $A$ and $B$ are fixed
                – rafa
                Jul 31 at 14:20










              • Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 14:45











              • If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
                – Jens
                Jul 31 at 15:04










              • That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 15:16
















              • $A$ and $B$ are fixed
                – rafa
                Jul 31 at 14:20










              • Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 14:45











              • If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
                – Jens
                Jul 31 at 15:04










              • That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
                – emil
                Jul 31 at 15:16















              $A$ and $B$ are fixed
              – rafa
              Jul 31 at 14:20




              $A$ and $B$ are fixed
              – rafa
              Jul 31 at 14:20












              Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
              – emil
              Jul 31 at 14:45





              Fixed it. ( Previously I took points A and B as points on the circle)
              – emil
              Jul 31 at 14:45













              If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
              – Jens
              Jul 31 at 15:04




              If $OA gt 1$ and line $AB$ intersects the circle with center $O$, the minimum is the straight line connecting $A$ and $B$.
              – Jens
              Jul 31 at 15:04












              That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
              – emil
              Jul 31 at 15:16




              That happens when $xcostheta=1$ in which if we substitute to the result, $AM+BM=2sqrtx^2-1$
              – emil
              Jul 31 at 15:16










              up vote
              0
              down vote













              This solution is valid only if $A$ and $B$ lie outside the circle. If segment $AB$ intersects the circle, $M$ is obviously either intersection point.



              Suppose then $AB$ doesn't intersect the circle: in that case $M$ is the nearest intersection between the circle and the perpendicular bisector of $AB$, such that the circle and $AB$ are on opposite sides with respect to the tangent $t$ at $M$.



              Proof.



              Let $A'$ be the reflection of $A$ about $t$: then $M$ is the midpoint of $A'B$. If $N$ is any other point on $t$, different from $M$, then $AN+BN>AM+BM$, because:
              $$
              AN+BN=A'N+BN>A'B=A'M+BM=AM+BM,
              $$
              where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $A'BN$.
              Let now $P$ be a point on the circle, different from $M$. Segment $PB$ will intersect $t$ at some point $Q$ and:
              $$
              AP+BP=AP+PQ+BQ>AQ+BQge AM+BM,
              $$
              where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $APQ$ and used the result proved above.



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer



























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                This solution is valid only if $A$ and $B$ lie outside the circle. If segment $AB$ intersects the circle, $M$ is obviously either intersection point.



                Suppose then $AB$ doesn't intersect the circle: in that case $M$ is the nearest intersection between the circle and the perpendicular bisector of $AB$, such that the circle and $AB$ are on opposite sides with respect to the tangent $t$ at $M$.



                Proof.



                Let $A'$ be the reflection of $A$ about $t$: then $M$ is the midpoint of $A'B$. If $N$ is any other point on $t$, different from $M$, then $AN+BN>AM+BM$, because:
                $$
                AN+BN=A'N+BN>A'B=A'M+BM=AM+BM,
                $$
                where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $A'BN$.
                Let now $P$ be a point on the circle, different from $M$. Segment $PB$ will intersect $t$ at some point $Q$ and:
                $$
                AP+BP=AP+PQ+BQ>AQ+BQge AM+BM,
                $$
                where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $APQ$ and used the result proved above.



                enter image description here






                share|cite|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  This solution is valid only if $A$ and $B$ lie outside the circle. If segment $AB$ intersects the circle, $M$ is obviously either intersection point.



                  Suppose then $AB$ doesn't intersect the circle: in that case $M$ is the nearest intersection between the circle and the perpendicular bisector of $AB$, such that the circle and $AB$ are on opposite sides with respect to the tangent $t$ at $M$.



                  Proof.



                  Let $A'$ be the reflection of $A$ about $t$: then $M$ is the midpoint of $A'B$. If $N$ is any other point on $t$, different from $M$, then $AN+BN>AM+BM$, because:
                  $$
                  AN+BN=A'N+BN>A'B=A'M+BM=AM+BM,
                  $$
                  where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $A'BN$.
                  Let now $P$ be a point on the circle, different from $M$. Segment $PB$ will intersect $t$ at some point $Q$ and:
                  $$
                  AP+BP=AP+PQ+BQ>AQ+BQge AM+BM,
                  $$
                  where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $APQ$ and used the result proved above.



                  enter image description here






                  share|cite|improve this answer















                  This solution is valid only if $A$ and $B$ lie outside the circle. If segment $AB$ intersects the circle, $M$ is obviously either intersection point.



                  Suppose then $AB$ doesn't intersect the circle: in that case $M$ is the nearest intersection between the circle and the perpendicular bisector of $AB$, such that the circle and $AB$ are on opposite sides with respect to the tangent $t$ at $M$.



                  Proof.



                  Let $A'$ be the reflection of $A$ about $t$: then $M$ is the midpoint of $A'B$. If $N$ is any other point on $t$, different from $M$, then $AN+BN>AM+BM$, because:
                  $$
                  AN+BN=A'N+BN>A'B=A'M+BM=AM+BM,
                  $$
                  where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $A'BN$.
                  Let now $P$ be a point on the circle, different from $M$. Segment $PB$ will intersect $t$ at some point $Q$ and:
                  $$
                  AP+BP=AP+PQ+BQ>AQ+BQge AM+BM,
                  $$
                  where I applied the triangular inequality to triangle $APQ$ and used the result proved above.



                  enter image description here







                  share|cite|improve this answer















                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Aug 1 at 9:40


























                  answered Jul 31 at 20:06









                  Aretino

                  21.7k21342




                  21.7k21342












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