How to simplify $intsqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1dx$?

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down vote

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I have been asked about the following integral:



$$intsqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1dx$$
I think this is a joke of bad taste. I have tried every elementary method of integration which i know, also i tried integrating using Maple but as i suspected, the integrad doesn't have an anti derivative. Any ideas?







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  • You could always put it into WolframAlpha, see if you get anything remotely nice and if so reverse engineer a solution from there. But be warned: some times WA gives ugly answers when there exist nice ones.
    – Arthur
    Aug 1 at 4:33











  • WA doesn't give anything nice back: wolframalpha.com/input/…
    – Mason
    Aug 1 at 4:36






  • 3




    All of these kinds of integrals are jokes in bad taste. The universe is laughing at the limited expressive strength of our mathematics.
    – Daniel
    Aug 1 at 6:32






  • 3




    Can't the title be more descriptive? .........
    – user202729
    Aug 1 at 7:21










  • @Mason: WA often gives Wrong Answers, so even if it says something you still have to know how to verify it.
    – user21820
    Aug 1 at 7:40














up vote
18
down vote

favorite
12












I have been asked about the following integral:



$$intsqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1dx$$
I think this is a joke of bad taste. I have tried every elementary method of integration which i know, also i tried integrating using Maple but as i suspected, the integrad doesn't have an anti derivative. Any ideas?







share|cite|improve this question





















  • You could always put it into WolframAlpha, see if you get anything remotely nice and if so reverse engineer a solution from there. But be warned: some times WA gives ugly answers when there exist nice ones.
    – Arthur
    Aug 1 at 4:33











  • WA doesn't give anything nice back: wolframalpha.com/input/…
    – Mason
    Aug 1 at 4:36






  • 3




    All of these kinds of integrals are jokes in bad taste. The universe is laughing at the limited expressive strength of our mathematics.
    – Daniel
    Aug 1 at 6:32






  • 3




    Can't the title be more descriptive? .........
    – user202729
    Aug 1 at 7:21










  • @Mason: WA often gives Wrong Answers, so even if it says something you still have to know how to verify it.
    – user21820
    Aug 1 at 7:40












up vote
18
down vote

favorite
12









up vote
18
down vote

favorite
12






12





I have been asked about the following integral:



$$intsqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1dx$$
I think this is a joke of bad taste. I have tried every elementary method of integration which i know, also i tried integrating using Maple but as i suspected, the integrad doesn't have an anti derivative. Any ideas?







share|cite|improve this question













I have been asked about the following integral:



$$intsqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1dx$$
I think this is a joke of bad taste. I have tried every elementary method of integration which i know, also i tried integrating using Maple but as i suspected, the integrad doesn't have an anti derivative. Any ideas?









share|cite|improve this question












share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 1 at 7:38









user21820

35.8k440136




35.8k440136









asked Aug 1 at 4:23









Johnny chad

1106




1106











  • You could always put it into WolframAlpha, see if you get anything remotely nice and if so reverse engineer a solution from there. But be warned: some times WA gives ugly answers when there exist nice ones.
    – Arthur
    Aug 1 at 4:33











  • WA doesn't give anything nice back: wolframalpha.com/input/…
    – Mason
    Aug 1 at 4:36






  • 3




    All of these kinds of integrals are jokes in bad taste. The universe is laughing at the limited expressive strength of our mathematics.
    – Daniel
    Aug 1 at 6:32






  • 3




    Can't the title be more descriptive? .........
    – user202729
    Aug 1 at 7:21










  • @Mason: WA often gives Wrong Answers, so even if it says something you still have to know how to verify it.
    – user21820
    Aug 1 at 7:40
















  • You could always put it into WolframAlpha, see if you get anything remotely nice and if so reverse engineer a solution from there. But be warned: some times WA gives ugly answers when there exist nice ones.
    – Arthur
    Aug 1 at 4:33











  • WA doesn't give anything nice back: wolframalpha.com/input/…
    – Mason
    Aug 1 at 4:36






  • 3




    All of these kinds of integrals are jokes in bad taste. The universe is laughing at the limited expressive strength of our mathematics.
    – Daniel
    Aug 1 at 6:32






  • 3




    Can't the title be more descriptive? .........
    – user202729
    Aug 1 at 7:21










  • @Mason: WA often gives Wrong Answers, so even if it says something you still have to know how to verify it.
    – user21820
    Aug 1 at 7:40















You could always put it into WolframAlpha, see if you get anything remotely nice and if so reverse engineer a solution from there. But be warned: some times WA gives ugly answers when there exist nice ones.
– Arthur
Aug 1 at 4:33





You could always put it into WolframAlpha, see if you get anything remotely nice and if so reverse engineer a solution from there. But be warned: some times WA gives ugly answers when there exist nice ones.
– Arthur
Aug 1 at 4:33













WA doesn't give anything nice back: wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Mason
Aug 1 at 4:36




WA doesn't give anything nice back: wolframalpha.com/input/…
– Mason
Aug 1 at 4:36




3




3




All of these kinds of integrals are jokes in bad taste. The universe is laughing at the limited expressive strength of our mathematics.
– Daniel
Aug 1 at 6:32




All of these kinds of integrals are jokes in bad taste. The universe is laughing at the limited expressive strength of our mathematics.
– Daniel
Aug 1 at 6:32




3




3




Can't the title be more descriptive? .........
– user202729
Aug 1 at 7:21




Can't the title be more descriptive? .........
– user202729
Aug 1 at 7:21












@Mason: WA often gives Wrong Answers, so even if it says something you still have to know how to verify it.
– user21820
Aug 1 at 7:40




@Mason: WA often gives Wrong Answers, so even if it says something you still have to know how to verify it.
– user21820
Aug 1 at 7:40










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
41
down vote



accepted










Use $$sqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=left|x+sqrtx^2-1right|.$$






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 2




    How did you discover that?
    – Arthur
    Aug 1 at 4:47






  • 6




    @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
    – Michael Rozenberg
    Aug 1 at 4:50






  • 3




    Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
    – Toby Mak
    Aug 1 at 4:57










  • It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
    – Narasimham
    Aug 1 at 5:13










  • What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
    – William
    Aug 2 at 10:24

















up vote
8
down vote













Hint:



$(x+sqrtx^2-1)^4 = x^4+4x^3sqrtx^2-1+6x^2(x^2-1)+4x(x^2-1)sqrtx^2-1+(x^2-1)^2 = 8x^4-8x^2+1-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    5
    down vote













    $$frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8=1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$$
    So the integral becomes



    $$beginalign
    & =intsqrt[4]frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8dx \
    & =frac12intleft( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^2dx \
    & =intleft( x+sqrtx^2-1 right)dx \
    endalign$$






    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 7




      While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
      – Batominovski
      Aug 1 at 8:55


















    up vote
    4
    down vote













    Hint:



    Let $textarcsecx=t, x=sec t$



    Using Principal values, $0le tlepi,tnedfracpi2$



    $sin t=sqrtleft(1-dfrac1xright)^2=dfracsqrtx^2-1$ as $sin tge0$



    $tan t=sin tsec t=?$



    $$1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=dfraccos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin tcos^4t$$



    Now $cos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin t$



    $=(1-sin^2t)^2-8(1-sin^2t)+8-4sin t(1-sin^2t)+8sin t$



    $=sin^4t+4sin^3t+6sin^2t+4sin t+1$



    $=(sin t+1)^4$






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      41
      down vote



      accepted










      Use $$sqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=left|x+sqrtx^2-1right|.$$






      share|cite|improve this answer



















      • 2




        How did you discover that?
        – Arthur
        Aug 1 at 4:47






      • 6




        @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
        – Michael Rozenberg
        Aug 1 at 4:50






      • 3




        Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
        – Toby Mak
        Aug 1 at 4:57










      • It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
        – Narasimham
        Aug 1 at 5:13










      • What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
        – William
        Aug 2 at 10:24














      up vote
      41
      down vote



      accepted










      Use $$sqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=left|x+sqrtx^2-1right|.$$






      share|cite|improve this answer



















      • 2




        How did you discover that?
        – Arthur
        Aug 1 at 4:47






      • 6




        @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
        – Michael Rozenberg
        Aug 1 at 4:50






      • 3




        Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
        – Toby Mak
        Aug 1 at 4:57










      • It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
        – Narasimham
        Aug 1 at 5:13










      • What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
        – William
        Aug 2 at 10:24












      up vote
      41
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      41
      down vote



      accepted






      Use $$sqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=left|x+sqrtx^2-1right|.$$






      share|cite|improve this answer















      Use $$sqrt[4]1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=left|x+sqrtx^2-1right|.$$







      share|cite|improve this answer















      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Aug 2 at 12:02









      Kitegi

      5511919




      5511919











      answered Aug 1 at 4:34









      Michael Rozenberg

      87.4k1577179




      87.4k1577179







      • 2




        How did you discover that?
        – Arthur
        Aug 1 at 4:47






      • 6




        @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
        – Michael Rozenberg
        Aug 1 at 4:50






      • 3




        Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
        – Toby Mak
        Aug 1 at 4:57










      • It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
        – Narasimham
        Aug 1 at 5:13










      • What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
        – William
        Aug 2 at 10:24












      • 2




        How did you discover that?
        – Arthur
        Aug 1 at 4:47






      • 6




        @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
        – Michael Rozenberg
        Aug 1 at 4:50






      • 3




        Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
        – Toby Mak
        Aug 1 at 4:57










      • It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
        – Narasimham
        Aug 1 at 5:13










      • What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
        – William
        Aug 2 at 10:24







      2




      2




      How did you discover that?
      – Arthur
      Aug 1 at 4:47




      How did you discover that?
      – Arthur
      Aug 1 at 4:47




      6




      6




      @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
      – Michael Rozenberg
      Aug 1 at 4:50




      @Arthur I tried to get $(a+b)^4$ under the radical and it turns out.
      – Michael Rozenberg
      Aug 1 at 4:50




      3




      3




      Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
      – Toby Mak
      Aug 1 at 4:57




      Desmos confirms that the two functions are the same.
      – Toby Mak
      Aug 1 at 4:57












      It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
      – Narasimham
      Aug 1 at 5:13




      It is a single hyperbola like curve with two disconnected parts. Each part can be obtained by changing sign in front of $sqrt...$
      – Narasimham
      Aug 1 at 5:13












      What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
      – William
      Aug 2 at 10:24




      What made you think of that? Pls I need to know.
      – William
      Aug 2 at 10:24










      up vote
      8
      down vote













      Hint:



      $(x+sqrtx^2-1)^4 = x^4+4x^3sqrtx^2-1+6x^2(x^2-1)+4x(x^2-1)sqrtx^2-1+(x^2-1)^2 = 8x^4-8x^2+1-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        8
        down vote













        Hint:



        $(x+sqrtx^2-1)^4 = x^4+4x^3sqrtx^2-1+6x^2(x^2-1)+4x(x^2-1)sqrtx^2-1+(x^2-1)^2 = 8x^4-8x^2+1-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          8
          down vote










          up vote
          8
          down vote









          Hint:



          $(x+sqrtx^2-1)^4 = x^4+4x^3sqrtx^2-1+6x^2(x^2-1)+4x(x^2-1)sqrtx^2-1+(x^2-1)^2 = 8x^4-8x^2+1-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$






          share|cite|improve this answer













          Hint:



          $(x+sqrtx^2-1)^4 = x^4+4x^3sqrtx^2-1+6x^2(x^2-1)+4x(x^2-1)sqrtx^2-1+(x^2-1)^2 = 8x^4-8x^2+1-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$







          share|cite|improve this answer













          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer











          answered Aug 1 at 4:49









          A. Pongrácz

          1,304115




          1,304115




















              up vote
              5
              down vote













              $$frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8=1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$$
              So the integral becomes



              $$beginalign
              & =intsqrt[4]frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8dx \
              & =frac12intleft( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^2dx \
              & =intleft( x+sqrtx^2-1 right)dx \
              endalign$$






              share|cite|improve this answer



















              • 7




                While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
                – Batominovski
                Aug 1 at 8:55















              up vote
              5
              down vote













              $$frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8=1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$$
              So the integral becomes



              $$beginalign
              & =intsqrt[4]frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8dx \
              & =frac12intleft( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^2dx \
              & =intleft( x+sqrtx^2-1 right)dx \
              endalign$$






              share|cite|improve this answer



















              • 7




                While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
                – Batominovski
                Aug 1 at 8:55













              up vote
              5
              down vote










              up vote
              5
              down vote









              $$frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8=1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$$
              So the integral becomes



              $$beginalign
              & =intsqrt[4]frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8dx \
              & =frac12intleft( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^2dx \
              & =intleft( x+sqrtx^2-1 right)dx \
              endalign$$






              share|cite|improve this answer















              $$frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8=1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1$$
              So the integral becomes



              $$beginalign
              & =intsqrt[4]frac116left( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^8dx \
              & =frac12intleft( sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1 right)^2dx \
              & =intleft( x+sqrtx^2-1 right)dx \
              endalign$$







              share|cite|improve this answer















              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Aug 1 at 8:34


























              answered Aug 1 at 8:09









              Vincent Law

              1,192110




              1,192110







              • 7




                While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
                – Batominovski
                Aug 1 at 8:55













              • 7




                While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
                – Batominovski
                Aug 1 at 8:55








              7




              7




              While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
              – Batominovski
              Aug 1 at 8:55





              While this is nice, I want to warn people that $$f(x):=frac12left(sqrtx-1+sqrtx+1right)^2$$ is not the same as $$g(x):=big|x+sqrtx^2-1big|,.$$ Over the reals, $f(x)$ is defined only for $xgeq 1$, but $g(x)$ is defined for all $x$ with $|x|geq 1$. I subtracted points in the past from students who had written something like this in their homework or exam papers. (But don't worry, I am not downvoting you.)
              – Batominovski
              Aug 1 at 8:55











              up vote
              4
              down vote













              Hint:



              Let $textarcsecx=t, x=sec t$



              Using Principal values, $0le tlepi,tnedfracpi2$



              $sin t=sqrtleft(1-dfrac1xright)^2=dfracsqrtx^2-1$ as $sin tge0$



              $tan t=sin tsec t=?$



              $$1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=dfraccos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin tcos^4t$$



              Now $cos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin t$



              $=(1-sin^2t)^2-8(1-sin^2t)+8-4sin t(1-sin^2t)+8sin t$



              $=sin^4t+4sin^3t+6sin^2t+4sin t+1$



              $=(sin t+1)^4$






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                4
                down vote













                Hint:



                Let $textarcsecx=t, x=sec t$



                Using Principal values, $0le tlepi,tnedfracpi2$



                $sin t=sqrtleft(1-dfrac1xright)^2=dfracsqrtx^2-1$ as $sin tge0$



                $tan t=sin tsec t=?$



                $$1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=dfraccos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin tcos^4t$$



                Now $cos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin t$



                $=(1-sin^2t)^2-8(1-sin^2t)+8-4sin t(1-sin^2t)+8sin t$



                $=sin^4t+4sin^3t+6sin^2t+4sin t+1$



                $=(sin t+1)^4$






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  4
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                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote









                  Hint:



                  Let $textarcsecx=t, x=sec t$



                  Using Principal values, $0le tlepi,tnedfracpi2$



                  $sin t=sqrtleft(1-dfrac1xright)^2=dfracsqrtx^2-1$ as $sin tge0$



                  $tan t=sin tsec t=?$



                  $$1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=dfraccos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin tcos^4t$$



                  Now $cos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin t$



                  $=(1-sin^2t)^2-8(1-sin^2t)+8-4sin t(1-sin^2t)+8sin t$



                  $=sin^4t+4sin^3t+6sin^2t+4sin t+1$



                  $=(sin t+1)^4$






                  share|cite|improve this answer













                  Hint:



                  Let $textarcsecx=t, x=sec t$



                  Using Principal values, $0le tlepi,tnedfracpi2$



                  $sin t=sqrtleft(1-dfrac1xright)^2=dfracsqrtx^2-1$ as $sin tge0$



                  $tan t=sin tsec t=?$



                  $$1-8x^2+8x^4-4xsqrtx^2-1+8x^3sqrtx^2-1=dfraccos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin tcos^4t$$



                  Now $cos^4t-8cos^2t+8-4sin tcos^2t+8sin t$



                  $=(1-sin^2t)^2-8(1-sin^2t)+8-4sin t(1-sin^2t)+8sin t$



                  $=sin^4t+4sin^3t+6sin^2t+4sin t+1$



                  $=(sin t+1)^4$







                  share|cite|improve this answer













                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  answered Aug 2 at 8:53









                  lab bhattacharjee

                  214k14152263




                  214k14152263






















                       

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