How to justify the definition of summation $s_n=sum_i=1^n a_i=a_1+cdots+a_n$?

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I read https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Summation#/Formal_definition and found that they define summation via recursion, so I decided to formalize the proof that that this definition is actually valid. I've two questions:



  1. Does my proof contain any error?


  2. Are there other simple ways to define summation?


Thank you so much!




Suppose that $(a_1,cdots,a_n)$ is a finite sequence in $mathbb N$. Show that there is a sequence $(s_1,cdots,s_n)$ such that $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.




My attempt:



We define mapping $f$ as follows: $f: mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb Ntimesmathbb N: (i,a)mapstobegincases
(i+1,a+a_i+1)&textif i<n\
(i+1,a)&textif igeq n
endcases$



By recursion theorem, there is a unique sequence $(p_imid iinmathbb N)$ such that $p_0=(1,a_1)$ and $p_i+1=f(p_i)$. Let $pi:mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb N$ be the projection to the second co-ordinate i.e. $pi(i,a)=a$. Let $s_i=pi(p_i)$ for all $1leq ileq n$, then $(s_imid 1leq ileq n)$ is the required sequence. It's clear from the definition of $s_i$ that $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.







share|cite|improve this question





















  • Your definition is incorrect because you use $s_i+1$ 'directly' in your definition before you've shown that it exists. You're loosely on the right track, but you need to be very careful about it.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 3:58










  • @StevenStadnicki, I has appealed to Recursion Theorem in my poof to show the existence of $s_i+1$.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 4:00











  • The point is that $s_i+1$ doesn't exist as an entity that you can use in the 'definition' of $f$ that you write; $f$ has to be 'internally' written. Do you have a typo, perhaps, in the $ilt n$ case of the mapping?
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 4:04






  • 1




    $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1$=$s_i$+$a_i+1$ for all 1≤ i <n is a simple way to define summation.
    – Steve B
    Jul 24 at 4:33











  • @StevenStadnicki Thank you so much. It's actually a typo :). It should be $(i+1,a+a_i+1)$ rather than $(i+1,a+s_i+1)$. I've fixed this typo. Please have a check on my proof again!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 7:40















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I read https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Summation#/Formal_definition and found that they define summation via recursion, so I decided to formalize the proof that that this definition is actually valid. I've two questions:



  1. Does my proof contain any error?


  2. Are there other simple ways to define summation?


Thank you so much!




Suppose that $(a_1,cdots,a_n)$ is a finite sequence in $mathbb N$. Show that there is a sequence $(s_1,cdots,s_n)$ such that $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.




My attempt:



We define mapping $f$ as follows: $f: mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb Ntimesmathbb N: (i,a)mapstobegincases
(i+1,a+a_i+1)&textif i<n\
(i+1,a)&textif igeq n
endcases$



By recursion theorem, there is a unique sequence $(p_imid iinmathbb N)$ such that $p_0=(1,a_1)$ and $p_i+1=f(p_i)$. Let $pi:mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb N$ be the projection to the second co-ordinate i.e. $pi(i,a)=a$. Let $s_i=pi(p_i)$ for all $1leq ileq n$, then $(s_imid 1leq ileq n)$ is the required sequence. It's clear from the definition of $s_i$ that $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.







share|cite|improve this question





















  • Your definition is incorrect because you use $s_i+1$ 'directly' in your definition before you've shown that it exists. You're loosely on the right track, but you need to be very careful about it.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 3:58










  • @StevenStadnicki, I has appealed to Recursion Theorem in my poof to show the existence of $s_i+1$.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 4:00











  • The point is that $s_i+1$ doesn't exist as an entity that you can use in the 'definition' of $f$ that you write; $f$ has to be 'internally' written. Do you have a typo, perhaps, in the $ilt n$ case of the mapping?
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 4:04






  • 1




    $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1$=$s_i$+$a_i+1$ for all 1≤ i <n is a simple way to define summation.
    – Steve B
    Jul 24 at 4:33











  • @StevenStadnicki Thank you so much. It's actually a typo :). It should be $(i+1,a+a_i+1)$ rather than $(i+1,a+s_i+1)$. I've fixed this typo. Please have a check on my proof again!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 7:40













up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











I read https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Summation#/Formal_definition and found that they define summation via recursion, so I decided to formalize the proof that that this definition is actually valid. I've two questions:



  1. Does my proof contain any error?


  2. Are there other simple ways to define summation?


Thank you so much!




Suppose that $(a_1,cdots,a_n)$ is a finite sequence in $mathbb N$. Show that there is a sequence $(s_1,cdots,s_n)$ such that $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.




My attempt:



We define mapping $f$ as follows: $f: mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb Ntimesmathbb N: (i,a)mapstobegincases
(i+1,a+a_i+1)&textif i<n\
(i+1,a)&textif igeq n
endcases$



By recursion theorem, there is a unique sequence $(p_imid iinmathbb N)$ such that $p_0=(1,a_1)$ and $p_i+1=f(p_i)$. Let $pi:mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb N$ be the projection to the second co-ordinate i.e. $pi(i,a)=a$. Let $s_i=pi(p_i)$ for all $1leq ileq n$, then $(s_imid 1leq ileq n)$ is the required sequence. It's clear from the definition of $s_i$ that $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.







share|cite|improve this question













I read https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Summation#/Formal_definition and found that they define summation via recursion, so I decided to formalize the proof that that this definition is actually valid. I've two questions:



  1. Does my proof contain any error?


  2. Are there other simple ways to define summation?


Thank you so much!




Suppose that $(a_1,cdots,a_n)$ is a finite sequence in $mathbb N$. Show that there is a sequence $(s_1,cdots,s_n)$ such that $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.




My attempt:



We define mapping $f$ as follows: $f: mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb Ntimesmathbb N: (i,a)mapstobegincases
(i+1,a+a_i+1)&textif i<n\
(i+1,a)&textif igeq n
endcases$



By recursion theorem, there is a unique sequence $(p_imid iinmathbb N)$ such that $p_0=(1,a_1)$ and $p_i+1=f(p_i)$. Let $pi:mathbb Ntimesmathbb Ntomathbb N$ be the projection to the second co-ordinate i.e. $pi(i,a)=a$. Let $s_i=pi(p_i)$ for all $1leq ileq n$, then $(s_imid 1leq ileq n)$ is the required sequence. It's clear from the definition of $s_i$ that $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$ for all $1leq i<n$.









share|cite|improve this question












share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jul 25 at 2:26
























asked Jul 24 at 3:41









Le Anh Dung

767318




767318











  • Your definition is incorrect because you use $s_i+1$ 'directly' in your definition before you've shown that it exists. You're loosely on the right track, but you need to be very careful about it.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 3:58










  • @StevenStadnicki, I has appealed to Recursion Theorem in my poof to show the existence of $s_i+1$.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 4:00











  • The point is that $s_i+1$ doesn't exist as an entity that you can use in the 'definition' of $f$ that you write; $f$ has to be 'internally' written. Do you have a typo, perhaps, in the $ilt n$ case of the mapping?
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 4:04






  • 1




    $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1$=$s_i$+$a_i+1$ for all 1≤ i <n is a simple way to define summation.
    – Steve B
    Jul 24 at 4:33











  • @StevenStadnicki Thank you so much. It's actually a typo :). It should be $(i+1,a+a_i+1)$ rather than $(i+1,a+s_i+1)$. I've fixed this typo. Please have a check on my proof again!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 7:40

















  • Your definition is incorrect because you use $s_i+1$ 'directly' in your definition before you've shown that it exists. You're loosely on the right track, but you need to be very careful about it.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 3:58










  • @StevenStadnicki, I has appealed to Recursion Theorem in my poof to show the existence of $s_i+1$.
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 4:00











  • The point is that $s_i+1$ doesn't exist as an entity that you can use in the 'definition' of $f$ that you write; $f$ has to be 'internally' written. Do you have a typo, perhaps, in the $ilt n$ case of the mapping?
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 24 at 4:04






  • 1




    $s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1$=$s_i$+$a_i+1$ for all 1≤ i <n is a simple way to define summation.
    – Steve B
    Jul 24 at 4:33











  • @StevenStadnicki Thank you so much. It's actually a typo :). It should be $(i+1,a+a_i+1)$ rather than $(i+1,a+s_i+1)$. I've fixed this typo. Please have a check on my proof again!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 24 at 7:40
















Your definition is incorrect because you use $s_i+1$ 'directly' in your definition before you've shown that it exists. You're loosely on the right track, but you need to be very careful about it.
– Steven Stadnicki
Jul 24 at 3:58




Your definition is incorrect because you use $s_i+1$ 'directly' in your definition before you've shown that it exists. You're loosely on the right track, but you need to be very careful about it.
– Steven Stadnicki
Jul 24 at 3:58












@StevenStadnicki, I has appealed to Recursion Theorem in my poof to show the existence of $s_i+1$.
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 24 at 4:00





@StevenStadnicki, I has appealed to Recursion Theorem in my poof to show the existence of $s_i+1$.
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 24 at 4:00













The point is that $s_i+1$ doesn't exist as an entity that you can use in the 'definition' of $f$ that you write; $f$ has to be 'internally' written. Do you have a typo, perhaps, in the $ilt n$ case of the mapping?
– Steven Stadnicki
Jul 24 at 4:04




The point is that $s_i+1$ doesn't exist as an entity that you can use in the 'definition' of $f$ that you write; $f$ has to be 'internally' written. Do you have a typo, perhaps, in the $ilt n$ case of the mapping?
– Steven Stadnicki
Jul 24 at 4:04




1




1




$s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1$=$s_i$+$a_i+1$ for all 1≤ i <n is a simple way to define summation.
– Steve B
Jul 24 at 4:33





$s_1=a_1$ and $s_i+1$=$s_i$+$a_i+1$ for all 1≤ i <n is a simple way to define summation.
– Steve B
Jul 24 at 4:33













@StevenStadnicki Thank you so much. It's actually a typo :). It should be $(i+1,a+a_i+1)$ rather than $(i+1,a+s_i+1)$. I've fixed this typo. Please have a check on my proof again!
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 24 at 7:40





@StevenStadnicki Thank you so much. It's actually a typo :). It should be $(i+1,a+a_i+1)$ rather than $(i+1,a+s_i+1)$. I've fixed this typo. Please have a check on my proof again!
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 24 at 7:40











1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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up vote
0
down vote



accepted










There are still a few issues with this proof. Most notably, you're being a bit sloppy with the definitions of all of your 'entities' around the proof; for instance, you say that "$s_i+1=f(s_i)$," but $f$ is defined on $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, and it's unclear whether individual elements $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$ or $mathbbNtimes N$; at one point you say $s_0=langle 1,a_1rangle$ which suggests that each $s_i$ is a member of $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, but then later you say $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$, which suggests that the $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$.



Instead, I suggest writing it in this form:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n)=sum_i=1^na(i)$.




Now it's clear exactly what the domain of the quantities being worked with is, and you can be more precise in your usage of the recursion theorem: in particular, we can rewrite the statement above as follows:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that $s(1)=a(1)$ and such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n+1)=s(n)+a(n+1)$.




And now it should be clear that we can take the function $f(i,m): mathbbNtimesmathbbNmapstomathbbN$ given by $f(i,m)=m+a(i)$ and apply the recursion theorem to $f()$. (Note that there's no need for cases in the definition of $f()$; the 'base case' is essentially passed directly into the recursion theorem.)






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Please have a look at my fixed proof!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 0:12






  • 1




    I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 26 at 15:39










  • Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 16:58










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1 Answer
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active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
0
down vote



accepted










There are still a few issues with this proof. Most notably, you're being a bit sloppy with the definitions of all of your 'entities' around the proof; for instance, you say that "$s_i+1=f(s_i)$," but $f$ is defined on $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, and it's unclear whether individual elements $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$ or $mathbbNtimes N$; at one point you say $s_0=langle 1,a_1rangle$ which suggests that each $s_i$ is a member of $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, but then later you say $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$, which suggests that the $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$.



Instead, I suggest writing it in this form:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n)=sum_i=1^na(i)$.




Now it's clear exactly what the domain of the quantities being worked with is, and you can be more precise in your usage of the recursion theorem: in particular, we can rewrite the statement above as follows:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that $s(1)=a(1)$ and such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n+1)=s(n)+a(n+1)$.




And now it should be clear that we can take the function $f(i,m): mathbbNtimesmathbbNmapstomathbbN$ given by $f(i,m)=m+a(i)$ and apply the recursion theorem to $f()$. (Note that there's no need for cases in the definition of $f()$; the 'base case' is essentially passed directly into the recursion theorem.)






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Please have a look at my fixed proof!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 0:12






  • 1




    I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 26 at 15:39










  • Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 16:58














up vote
0
down vote



accepted










There are still a few issues with this proof. Most notably, you're being a bit sloppy with the definitions of all of your 'entities' around the proof; for instance, you say that "$s_i+1=f(s_i)$," but $f$ is defined on $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, and it's unclear whether individual elements $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$ or $mathbbNtimes N$; at one point you say $s_0=langle 1,a_1rangle$ which suggests that each $s_i$ is a member of $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, but then later you say $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$, which suggests that the $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$.



Instead, I suggest writing it in this form:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n)=sum_i=1^na(i)$.




Now it's clear exactly what the domain of the quantities being worked with is, and you can be more precise in your usage of the recursion theorem: in particular, we can rewrite the statement above as follows:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that $s(1)=a(1)$ and such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n+1)=s(n)+a(n+1)$.




And now it should be clear that we can take the function $f(i,m): mathbbNtimesmathbbNmapstomathbbN$ given by $f(i,m)=m+a(i)$ and apply the recursion theorem to $f()$. (Note that there's no need for cases in the definition of $f()$; the 'base case' is essentially passed directly into the recursion theorem.)






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Please have a look at my fixed proof!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 0:12






  • 1




    I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 26 at 15:39










  • Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 16:58












up vote
0
down vote



accepted







up vote
0
down vote



accepted






There are still a few issues with this proof. Most notably, you're being a bit sloppy with the definitions of all of your 'entities' around the proof; for instance, you say that "$s_i+1=f(s_i)$," but $f$ is defined on $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, and it's unclear whether individual elements $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$ or $mathbbNtimes N$; at one point you say $s_0=langle 1,a_1rangle$ which suggests that each $s_i$ is a member of $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, but then later you say $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$, which suggests that the $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$.



Instead, I suggest writing it in this form:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n)=sum_i=1^na(i)$.




Now it's clear exactly what the domain of the quantities being worked with is, and you can be more precise in your usage of the recursion theorem: in particular, we can rewrite the statement above as follows:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that $s(1)=a(1)$ and such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n+1)=s(n)+a(n+1)$.




And now it should be clear that we can take the function $f(i,m): mathbbNtimesmathbbNmapstomathbbN$ given by $f(i,m)=m+a(i)$ and apply the recursion theorem to $f()$. (Note that there's no need for cases in the definition of $f()$; the 'base case' is essentially passed directly into the recursion theorem.)






share|cite|improve this answer













There are still a few issues with this proof. Most notably, you're being a bit sloppy with the definitions of all of your 'entities' around the proof; for instance, you say that "$s_i+1=f(s_i)$," but $f$ is defined on $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, and it's unclear whether individual elements $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$ or $mathbbNtimes N$; at one point you say $s_0=langle 1,a_1rangle$ which suggests that each $s_i$ is a member of $mathbbNtimesmathbbN$, but then later you say $s_i+1=s_i+a_i+1$, which suggests that the $s_i$ are members of $mathbbN$.



Instead, I suggest writing it in this form:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n)=sum_i=1^na(i)$.




Now it's clear exactly what the domain of the quantities being worked with is, and you can be more precise in your usage of the recursion theorem: in particular, we can rewrite the statement above as follows:




For each function $a():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$, there is a function $s():mathbbNmapstomathbbN$ such that $s(1)=a(1)$ and such that for all $ninmathbbN$, $s(n+1)=s(n)+a(n+1)$.




And now it should be clear that we can take the function $f(i,m): mathbbNtimesmathbbNmapstomathbbN$ given by $f(i,m)=m+a(i)$ and apply the recursion theorem to $f()$. (Note that there's no need for cases in the definition of $f()$; the 'base case' is essentially passed directly into the recursion theorem.)







share|cite|improve this answer













share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer











answered Jul 24 at 17:10









Steven Stadnicki

40.1k765119




40.1k765119











  • Please have a look at my fixed proof!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 0:12






  • 1




    I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 26 at 15:39










  • Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 16:58
















  • Please have a look at my fixed proof!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 0:12






  • 1




    I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
    – Steven Stadnicki
    Jul 26 at 15:39










  • Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
    – Le Anh Dung
    Jul 26 at 16:58















Please have a look at my fixed proof!
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 26 at 0:12




Please have a look at my fixed proof!
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 26 at 0:12




1




1




I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
– Steven Stadnicki
Jul 26 at 15:39




I believe the current version is correct; using the index $i$ in the mapping of the function $f$ isn't strictly necessary depending on which version of the recursion theorem you use, but neither does it really hurt anything.
– Steven Stadnicki
Jul 26 at 15:39












Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 26 at 16:58




Thank you so much for your dedicated help!
– Le Anh Dung
Jul 26 at 16:58












 

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