Use De Moivre–Laplace to approximate $1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright)$

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I am trying to use De Moivre–Laplace theorem to approximate
$$1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright)$$



The idea of an approximation is that we don't have the sum term which is difficult to calculate if $n$ is high.



Using the De Moivre–Laplace theorem gets us that: $$n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k approx frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(k-np)^22np(1-p)$$
Now we see that
beginalign
F &= 1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright) \&approx 1 - int_-infty^infty frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(x-np)^22np(1-p)log_2left(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2xright) dx
endalign



my calculation is inspired by Entropy of a binomial distribution



If one has an other suggestion to approximate $F$ or get a closed for i would like to hear those. So far i've tried approximating $F$ with a least squares method using a tanh function as the fit function.







share|cite|improve this question















This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Kees Til ending ending at 2018-08-11 10:21:15Z">in 3 days.


Looking for an answer drawing from credible and/or official sources.











  • 1




    Missed $dp$ in the integral
    – Yuri Negometyanov
    Aug 4 at 20:22






  • 1




    I didnt get it. There is something seriously wrong here. The sum formula is eventually independent of $k$ but dependent on $p$ and the final integral is independent of $p$ but dependent on $k$. What does $k$ mean after the integration? sounds strange right?
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 21:06






  • 1




    I guess $k$ is eventually $x$ and the integration over $p$ is probably a typo. I do not get the limit $-infty..+infty$ though when originally we have $0..n$.
    – Diger
    Aug 4 at 21:12







  • 1




    Actually it doesnt matter. So for $p<0.5$ use the approximation $log(1+y)approx y$ and for large $y$, we have $log(1+y)approx log(y)$. One more thing you have $y=a^(f(x))$ and you can write this as $exp(a,f(x))$, then in the integral you have the multiplication of two exponentials. I think these forms are well studied.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:07







  • 1




    take $p$ small enough and $n$ large enough. I think it should work. Btw. It will be very good, if you could put the results that you already have to the question description. Plus: the answer of wolfram.alpha for the evaluation of this integral, just the link.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:28















up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1












I am trying to use De Moivre–Laplace theorem to approximate
$$1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright)$$



The idea of an approximation is that we don't have the sum term which is difficult to calculate if $n$ is high.



Using the De Moivre–Laplace theorem gets us that: $$n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k approx frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(k-np)^22np(1-p)$$
Now we see that
beginalign
F &= 1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright) \&approx 1 - int_-infty^infty frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(x-np)^22np(1-p)log_2left(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2xright) dx
endalign



my calculation is inspired by Entropy of a binomial distribution



If one has an other suggestion to approximate $F$ or get a closed for i would like to hear those. So far i've tried approximating $F$ with a least squares method using a tanh function as the fit function.







share|cite|improve this question















This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Kees Til ending ending at 2018-08-11 10:21:15Z">in 3 days.


Looking for an answer drawing from credible and/or official sources.











  • 1




    Missed $dp$ in the integral
    – Yuri Negometyanov
    Aug 4 at 20:22






  • 1




    I didnt get it. There is something seriously wrong here. The sum formula is eventually independent of $k$ but dependent on $p$ and the final integral is independent of $p$ but dependent on $k$. What does $k$ mean after the integration? sounds strange right?
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 21:06






  • 1




    I guess $k$ is eventually $x$ and the integration over $p$ is probably a typo. I do not get the limit $-infty..+infty$ though when originally we have $0..n$.
    – Diger
    Aug 4 at 21:12







  • 1




    Actually it doesnt matter. So for $p<0.5$ use the approximation $log(1+y)approx y$ and for large $y$, we have $log(1+y)approx log(y)$. One more thing you have $y=a^(f(x))$ and you can write this as $exp(a,f(x))$, then in the integral you have the multiplication of two exponentials. I think these forms are well studied.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:07







  • 1




    take $p$ small enough and $n$ large enough. I think it should work. Btw. It will be very good, if you could put the results that you already have to the question description. Plus: the answer of wolfram.alpha for the evaluation of this integral, just the link.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:28













up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
3
down vote

favorite
1






1





I am trying to use De Moivre–Laplace theorem to approximate
$$1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright)$$



The idea of an approximation is that we don't have the sum term which is difficult to calculate if $n$ is high.



Using the De Moivre–Laplace theorem gets us that: $$n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k approx frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(k-np)^22np(1-p)$$
Now we see that
beginalign
F &= 1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright) \&approx 1 - int_-infty^infty frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(x-np)^22np(1-p)log_2left(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2xright) dx
endalign



my calculation is inspired by Entropy of a binomial distribution



If one has an other suggestion to approximate $F$ or get a closed for i would like to hear those. So far i've tried approximating $F$ with a least squares method using a tanh function as the fit function.







share|cite|improve this question













I am trying to use De Moivre–Laplace theorem to approximate
$$1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright)$$



The idea of an approximation is that we don't have the sum term which is difficult to calculate if $n$ is high.



Using the De Moivre–Laplace theorem gets us that: $$n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k approx frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(k-np)^22np(1-p)$$
Now we see that
beginalign
F &= 1 - sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright) \&approx 1 - int_-infty^infty frac1sqrt2 pi np(1-p)e^-frac(x-np)^22np(1-p)log_2left(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2xright) dx
endalign



my calculation is inspired by Entropy of a binomial distribution



If one has an other suggestion to approximate $F$ or get a closed for i would like to hear those. So far i've tried approximating $F$ with a least squares method using a tanh function as the fit function.









share|cite|improve this question












share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 4 at 21:34
























asked Aug 2 at 10:06









Kees Til

562617




562617






This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Kees Til ending ending at 2018-08-11 10:21:15Z">in 3 days.


Looking for an answer drawing from credible and/or official sources.








This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Kees Til ending ending at 2018-08-11 10:21:15Z">in 3 days.


Looking for an answer drawing from credible and/or official sources.









  • 1




    Missed $dp$ in the integral
    – Yuri Negometyanov
    Aug 4 at 20:22






  • 1




    I didnt get it. There is something seriously wrong here. The sum formula is eventually independent of $k$ but dependent on $p$ and the final integral is independent of $p$ but dependent on $k$. What does $k$ mean after the integration? sounds strange right?
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 21:06






  • 1




    I guess $k$ is eventually $x$ and the integration over $p$ is probably a typo. I do not get the limit $-infty..+infty$ though when originally we have $0..n$.
    – Diger
    Aug 4 at 21:12







  • 1




    Actually it doesnt matter. So for $p<0.5$ use the approximation $log(1+y)approx y$ and for large $y$, we have $log(1+y)approx log(y)$. One more thing you have $y=a^(f(x))$ and you can write this as $exp(a,f(x))$, then in the integral you have the multiplication of two exponentials. I think these forms are well studied.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:07







  • 1




    take $p$ small enough and $n$ large enough. I think it should work. Btw. It will be very good, if you could put the results that you already have to the question description. Plus: the answer of wolfram.alpha for the evaluation of this integral, just the link.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:28













  • 1




    Missed $dp$ in the integral
    – Yuri Negometyanov
    Aug 4 at 20:22






  • 1




    I didnt get it. There is something seriously wrong here. The sum formula is eventually independent of $k$ but dependent on $p$ and the final integral is independent of $p$ but dependent on $k$. What does $k$ mean after the integration? sounds strange right?
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 21:06






  • 1




    I guess $k$ is eventually $x$ and the integration over $p$ is probably a typo. I do not get the limit $-infty..+infty$ though when originally we have $0..n$.
    – Diger
    Aug 4 at 21:12







  • 1




    Actually it doesnt matter. So for $p<0.5$ use the approximation $log(1+y)approx y$ and for large $y$, we have $log(1+y)approx log(y)$. One more thing you have $y=a^(f(x))$ and you can write this as $exp(a,f(x))$, then in the integral you have the multiplication of two exponentials. I think these forms are well studied.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:07







  • 1




    take $p$ small enough and $n$ large enough. I think it should work. Btw. It will be very good, if you could put the results that you already have to the question description. Plus: the answer of wolfram.alpha for the evaluation of this integral, just the link.
    – Seyhmus Güngören
    Aug 4 at 22:28








1




1




Missed $dp$ in the integral
– Yuri Negometyanov
Aug 4 at 20:22




Missed $dp$ in the integral
– Yuri Negometyanov
Aug 4 at 20:22




1




1




I didnt get it. There is something seriously wrong here. The sum formula is eventually independent of $k$ but dependent on $p$ and the final integral is independent of $p$ but dependent on $k$. What does $k$ mean after the integration? sounds strange right?
– Seyhmus Güngören
Aug 4 at 21:06




I didnt get it. There is something seriously wrong here. The sum formula is eventually independent of $k$ but dependent on $p$ and the final integral is independent of $p$ but dependent on $k$. What does $k$ mean after the integration? sounds strange right?
– Seyhmus Güngören
Aug 4 at 21:06




1




1




I guess $k$ is eventually $x$ and the integration over $p$ is probably a typo. I do not get the limit $-infty..+infty$ though when originally we have $0..n$.
– Diger
Aug 4 at 21:12





I guess $k$ is eventually $x$ and the integration over $p$ is probably a typo. I do not get the limit $-infty..+infty$ though when originally we have $0..n$.
– Diger
Aug 4 at 21:12





1




1




Actually it doesnt matter. So for $p<0.5$ use the approximation $log(1+y)approx y$ and for large $y$, we have $log(1+y)approx log(y)$. One more thing you have $y=a^(f(x))$ and you can write this as $exp(a,f(x))$, then in the integral you have the multiplication of two exponentials. I think these forms are well studied.
– Seyhmus Güngören
Aug 4 at 22:07





Actually it doesnt matter. So for $p<0.5$ use the approximation $log(1+y)approx y$ and for large $y$, we have $log(1+y)approx log(y)$. One more thing you have $y=a^(f(x))$ and you can write this as $exp(a,f(x))$, then in the integral you have the multiplication of two exponentials. I think these forms are well studied.
– Seyhmus Güngören
Aug 4 at 22:07





1




1




take $p$ small enough and $n$ large enough. I think it should work. Btw. It will be very good, if you could put the results that you already have to the question description. Plus: the answer of wolfram.alpha for the evaluation of this integral, just the link.
– Seyhmus Güngören
Aug 4 at 22:28





take $p$ small enough and $n$ large enough. I think it should work. Btw. It will be very good, if you could put the results that you already have to the question description. Plus: the answer of wolfram.alpha for the evaluation of this integral, just the link.
– Seyhmus Güngören
Aug 4 at 22:28











1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
2
down vote













The expression looks very much like the Bernstein approximation of a function ($1-f(x)$) on $[0,1]$. But the argument (in fact the degree $n-2k$) of $log$ function ruins everything.



Here is a quick idea. Denote
$$
y(p)=sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright).
$$



Let us assume that we can represent $y(p)$ in the form $y(p)=sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m$, where $y_m$ are constants not depending on $p$.



Note that $y(p)=y(1-p)$. Let us consider the equation
$$
y(p)+y(1-p)=f(p).
tageq1labeleq1
$$
Although we can write out the expression for $f(p)$, let us think that
we don't know how $f(p)$ looks like. But for sure, $f(p)$ must
satisfy $f(p)=f(1-p)$. It is know (see for example http://eqworld.ipmnet.ru/en/solutions/fe/fe1116.pdf) that equations like eqrefeq1 have a solution, for example,
$$
tageq2labeleq2
y(p)=f(p) sin^2(pi p over 2).
$$
By expanding $sin^2(pi p over 2)$ into the Maclaurin series we get
$$
y(p)=f(p) sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 2^2m-1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2^2m.
$$



Let us assume that $f(p)$ is an analytic function i.e. $f(p)=sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m$. By writing eqrefeq2 in the series form we have:
$$
sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m
=
left (
sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



From this relation it may be possible to find the expressions
for $f^(m)(0)$ through $y_m$ by equating the coefficients at $p^m$. If this works out, we go back to the right part of eqrefeq2 and try to find how many terms in the product
$$
left (
f^(0)(0)
+
f^(1)(0) p
+
f^(2)(0) p over 2
+
dots
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



yield the approximate value.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
    – Kees Til
    9 hours ago










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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
2
down vote













The expression looks very much like the Bernstein approximation of a function ($1-f(x)$) on $[0,1]$. But the argument (in fact the degree $n-2k$) of $log$ function ruins everything.



Here is a quick idea. Denote
$$
y(p)=sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright).
$$



Let us assume that we can represent $y(p)$ in the form $y(p)=sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m$, where $y_m$ are constants not depending on $p$.



Note that $y(p)=y(1-p)$. Let us consider the equation
$$
y(p)+y(1-p)=f(p).
tageq1labeleq1
$$
Although we can write out the expression for $f(p)$, let us think that
we don't know how $f(p)$ looks like. But for sure, $f(p)$ must
satisfy $f(p)=f(1-p)$. It is know (see for example http://eqworld.ipmnet.ru/en/solutions/fe/fe1116.pdf) that equations like eqrefeq1 have a solution, for example,
$$
tageq2labeleq2
y(p)=f(p) sin^2(pi p over 2).
$$
By expanding $sin^2(pi p over 2)$ into the Maclaurin series we get
$$
y(p)=f(p) sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 2^2m-1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2^2m.
$$



Let us assume that $f(p)$ is an analytic function i.e. $f(p)=sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m$. By writing eqrefeq2 in the series form we have:
$$
sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m
=
left (
sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



From this relation it may be possible to find the expressions
for $f^(m)(0)$ through $y_m$ by equating the coefficients at $p^m$. If this works out, we go back to the right part of eqrefeq2 and try to find how many terms in the product
$$
left (
f^(0)(0)
+
f^(1)(0) p
+
f^(2)(0) p over 2
+
dots
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



yield the approximate value.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
    – Kees Til
    9 hours ago














up vote
2
down vote













The expression looks very much like the Bernstein approximation of a function ($1-f(x)$) on $[0,1]$. But the argument (in fact the degree $n-2k$) of $log$ function ruins everything.



Here is a quick idea. Denote
$$
y(p)=sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright).
$$



Let us assume that we can represent $y(p)$ in the form $y(p)=sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m$, where $y_m$ are constants not depending on $p$.



Note that $y(p)=y(1-p)$. Let us consider the equation
$$
y(p)+y(1-p)=f(p).
tageq1labeleq1
$$
Although we can write out the expression for $f(p)$, let us think that
we don't know how $f(p)$ looks like. But for sure, $f(p)$ must
satisfy $f(p)=f(1-p)$. It is know (see for example http://eqworld.ipmnet.ru/en/solutions/fe/fe1116.pdf) that equations like eqrefeq1 have a solution, for example,
$$
tageq2labeleq2
y(p)=f(p) sin^2(pi p over 2).
$$
By expanding $sin^2(pi p over 2)$ into the Maclaurin series we get
$$
y(p)=f(p) sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 2^2m-1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2^2m.
$$



Let us assume that $f(p)$ is an analytic function i.e. $f(p)=sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m$. By writing eqrefeq2 in the series form we have:
$$
sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m
=
left (
sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



From this relation it may be possible to find the expressions
for $f^(m)(0)$ through $y_m$ by equating the coefficients at $p^m$. If this works out, we go back to the right part of eqrefeq2 and try to find how many terms in the product
$$
left (
f^(0)(0)
+
f^(1)(0) p
+
f^(2)(0) p over 2
+
dots
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



yield the approximate value.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
    – Kees Til
    9 hours ago












up vote
2
down vote










up vote
2
down vote









The expression looks very much like the Bernstein approximation of a function ($1-f(x)$) on $[0,1]$. But the argument (in fact the degree $n-2k$) of $log$ function ruins everything.



Here is a quick idea. Denote
$$
y(p)=sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright).
$$



Let us assume that we can represent $y(p)$ in the form $y(p)=sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m$, where $y_m$ are constants not depending on $p$.



Note that $y(p)=y(1-p)$. Let us consider the equation
$$
y(p)+y(1-p)=f(p).
tageq1labeleq1
$$
Although we can write out the expression for $f(p)$, let us think that
we don't know how $f(p)$ looks like. But for sure, $f(p)$ must
satisfy $f(p)=f(1-p)$. It is know (see for example http://eqworld.ipmnet.ru/en/solutions/fe/fe1116.pdf) that equations like eqrefeq1 have a solution, for example,
$$
tageq2labeleq2
y(p)=f(p) sin^2(pi p over 2).
$$
By expanding $sin^2(pi p over 2)$ into the Maclaurin series we get
$$
y(p)=f(p) sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 2^2m-1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2^2m.
$$



Let us assume that $f(p)$ is an analytic function i.e. $f(p)=sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m$. By writing eqrefeq2 in the series form we have:
$$
sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m
=
left (
sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



From this relation it may be possible to find the expressions
for $f^(m)(0)$ through $y_m$ by equating the coefficients at $p^m$. If this works out, we go back to the right part of eqrefeq2 and try to find how many terms in the product
$$
left (
f^(0)(0)
+
f^(1)(0) p
+
f^(2)(0) p over 2
+
dots
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



yield the approximate value.






share|cite|improve this answer













The expression looks very much like the Bernstein approximation of a function ($1-f(x)$) on $[0,1]$. But the argument (in fact the degree $n-2k$) of $log$ function ruins everything.



Here is a quick idea. Denote
$$
y(p)=sum_k=0^n n choose k p^k(1-p)^n-k logleft(1+left(fracp1-pright)^n-2kright).
$$



Let us assume that we can represent $y(p)$ in the form $y(p)=sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m$, where $y_m$ are constants not depending on $p$.



Note that $y(p)=y(1-p)$. Let us consider the equation
$$
y(p)+y(1-p)=f(p).
tageq1labeleq1
$$
Although we can write out the expression for $f(p)$, let us think that
we don't know how $f(p)$ looks like. But for sure, $f(p)$ must
satisfy $f(p)=f(1-p)$. It is know (see for example http://eqworld.ipmnet.ru/en/solutions/fe/fe1116.pdf) that equations like eqrefeq1 have a solution, for example,
$$
tageq2labeleq2
y(p)=f(p) sin^2(pi p over 2).
$$
By expanding $sin^2(pi p over 2)$ into the Maclaurin series we get
$$
y(p)=f(p) sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 2^2m-1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2^2m.
$$



Let us assume that $f(p)$ is an analytic function i.e. $f(p)=sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m$. By writing eqrefeq2 in the series form we have:
$$
sum_m=0^infty y_m p^m
=
left (
sum_m=0^infty
f^(m)(0)over m! p^m
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



From this relation it may be possible to find the expressions
for $f^(m)(0)$ through $y_m$ by equating the coefficients at $p^m$. If this works out, we go back to the right part of eqrefeq2 and try to find how many terms in the product
$$
left (
f^(0)(0)
+
f^(1)(0) p
+
f^(2)(0) p over 2
+
dots
right )
left (
sum_m=1^infty (-1)^m+1 over (2m)!
p^2m pi^2m over 2
right ).
$$



yield the approximate value.







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answered 12 hours ago









rrv

463




463











  • so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
    – Kees Til
    9 hours ago
















  • so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
    – Kees Til
    9 hours ago















so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
– Kees Til
9 hours ago




so i can't use this because of the "n-2k" term?
– Kees Til
9 hours ago












 

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