What is the way to Liberation: direct communication with lord Krishna or the reading scriptures? [on hold]
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Which is it better the reading of the multitude of scriptures from different schools of Hindu thought whose aim is to show you the way to self realization, Moksha, Brahman, or direct communication with Lord Krishna?
krishna gods brahman moksha
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Swami Vishwananda, Sarvabhouma, Pratik Bhat, Suresh Ramaswamy, TheLittleNaruto Aug 7 at 8:47
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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Which is it better the reading of the multitude of scriptures from different schools of Hindu thought whose aim is to show you the way to self realization, Moksha, Brahman, or direct communication with Lord Krishna?
krishna gods brahman moksha
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Swami Vishwananda, Sarvabhouma, Pratik Bhat, Suresh Ramaswamy, TheLittleNaruto Aug 7 at 8:47
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
4
If you have direct communication with Krishna, that implies that you are already liberated.
– Arkaprabha Majumdar
Aug 6 at 1:26
Krishna = Brahman. Krishna alone = Brahman. So, both are the way.
– ram
Aug 6 at 3:36
2
Saguna Upansasa - Krishna, Nirguna Upasana - Brahman. Also visit Why does Krishna consider/believe the devotee who worship him as saguna superior than who worship as nirguna?.
– Pandya♦
Aug 6 at 3:37
vote to close. primarily opinion based.
– Swami Vishwananda
Aug 6 at 4:43
1
@Uday Krishna Ya it is the effort of the Divine Will power that takes one to the keshetra called Mt Kailash.
– Frank Hestermann
Aug 6 at 6:24
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up vote
4
down vote
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up vote
4
down vote
favorite
Which is it better the reading of the multitude of scriptures from different schools of Hindu thought whose aim is to show you the way to self realization, Moksha, Brahman, or direct communication with Lord Krishna?
krishna gods brahman moksha
Which is it better the reading of the multitude of scriptures from different schools of Hindu thought whose aim is to show you the way to self realization, Moksha, Brahman, or direct communication with Lord Krishna?
krishna gods brahman moksha
edited Aug 6 at 5:38


Sarvabhouma
12.4k450113
12.4k450113
asked Aug 6 at 0:42
Frank Hestermann
43311
43311
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Swami Vishwananda, Sarvabhouma, Pratik Bhat, Suresh Ramaswamy, TheLittleNaruto Aug 7 at 8:47
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Swami Vishwananda, Sarvabhouma, Pratik Bhat, Suresh Ramaswamy, TheLittleNaruto Aug 7 at 8:47
Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
4
If you have direct communication with Krishna, that implies that you are already liberated.
– Arkaprabha Majumdar
Aug 6 at 1:26
Krishna = Brahman. Krishna alone = Brahman. So, both are the way.
– ram
Aug 6 at 3:36
2
Saguna Upansasa - Krishna, Nirguna Upasana - Brahman. Also visit Why does Krishna consider/believe the devotee who worship him as saguna superior than who worship as nirguna?.
– Pandya♦
Aug 6 at 3:37
vote to close. primarily opinion based.
– Swami Vishwananda
Aug 6 at 4:43
1
@Uday Krishna Ya it is the effort of the Divine Will power that takes one to the keshetra called Mt Kailash.
– Frank Hestermann
Aug 6 at 6:24
 |Â
show 3 more comments
4
If you have direct communication with Krishna, that implies that you are already liberated.
– Arkaprabha Majumdar
Aug 6 at 1:26
Krishna = Brahman. Krishna alone = Brahman. So, both are the way.
– ram
Aug 6 at 3:36
2
Saguna Upansasa - Krishna, Nirguna Upasana - Brahman. Also visit Why does Krishna consider/believe the devotee who worship him as saguna superior than who worship as nirguna?.
– Pandya♦
Aug 6 at 3:37
vote to close. primarily opinion based.
– Swami Vishwananda
Aug 6 at 4:43
1
@Uday Krishna Ya it is the effort of the Divine Will power that takes one to the keshetra called Mt Kailash.
– Frank Hestermann
Aug 6 at 6:24
4
4
If you have direct communication with Krishna, that implies that you are already liberated.
– Arkaprabha Majumdar
Aug 6 at 1:26
If you have direct communication with Krishna, that implies that you are already liberated.
– Arkaprabha Majumdar
Aug 6 at 1:26
Krishna = Brahman. Krishna alone = Brahman. So, both are the way.
– ram
Aug 6 at 3:36
Krishna = Brahman. Krishna alone = Brahman. So, both are the way.
– ram
Aug 6 at 3:36
2
2
Saguna Upansasa - Krishna, Nirguna Upasana - Brahman. Also visit Why does Krishna consider/believe the devotee who worship him as saguna superior than who worship as nirguna?.
– Pandya♦
Aug 6 at 3:37
Saguna Upansasa - Krishna, Nirguna Upasana - Brahman. Also visit Why does Krishna consider/believe the devotee who worship him as saguna superior than who worship as nirguna?.
– Pandya♦
Aug 6 at 3:37
vote to close. primarily opinion based.
– Swami Vishwananda
Aug 6 at 4:43
vote to close. primarily opinion based.
– Swami Vishwananda
Aug 6 at 4:43
1
1
@Uday Krishna Ya it is the effort of the Divine Will power that takes one to the keshetra called Mt Kailash.
– Frank Hestermann
Aug 6 at 6:24
@Uday Krishna Ya it is the effort of the Divine Will power that takes one to the keshetra called Mt Kailash.
– Frank Hestermann
Aug 6 at 6:24
 |Â
show 3 more comments
3 Answers
3
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up vote
8
down vote
By reading scriptures one can not get Moksha. This is a well known conclusion of Hinduism.
Shabda Gyana (which are the scriptures) can not give Moksha. It is the direct perception or the Aparoksha anubhuti that will give.
Here's a verse from Patanjali Yoga Sutras.
shrutanumanaprajnabhyam anyavishayaa vishesharthatvat ||
The knowledge that is gained from testimony and inference is about
common objects. That from the Samadhi just mentioned is of a much
higher order, being able to penetrate where inference and testimony
cannot go.
On this Sutra, Swami Vivekananda's commentary is as follows:
The idea is that we have to get our knowledge of ordinary objects by
direct perception, and by inference therefrom, and from testimony of
people who are competent. By “people who are competent,†the Yogis
always mean the Rishis, or the Seers of the thoughts recorded in the
Scriptures—the Vedas. According to them, the only proof of the
Scriptures is that they were the testimony of competent persons, yet
they say the Scriptures cannot take us to realisation. We can read all
the Vedas, and yet will not realise anything, but when we practise
their teachings, then we attain to that state which realises what the
Scriptures say, which penetrates where reason cannot go, and where the
testimony of others cannot avail. This is what is meant by this
aphorism, that realisation is real religion, and all the rest is only
preparation—hearing lectures, or reading books, or reasoning, is
merely preparing the ground; it is not religion. Intellectual assent,
and intellectual dissent are not religion. The central idea of the
Yogis is that just as we come in direct contact with the objects of
the senses, so religion can be directly perceived in a far more
intense sense.
Regarding direct communication with Krishna - not sure what does that mean. Arjuna etc used to have direct communication with Krishna but they did not get Moksha.
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
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Krishna is verily Brahman personified. This is stated on the Bhagavatam, verse 1.3.28:
ete cÄÂá¹Âśa-kalÄÂḥ puá¹Âsaḥ |
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavÄÂn svayam |
indrÄÂri-vyÄÂkulaá¹ lokaá¹Â
mṛá¸Âayanti yuge yuge ||
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, who incarnates on different planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists.
Here, we need to concentrate on the second line, which says ‘Krsnas tu Bhagavan Svayam’. This means ‘But Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. So, Brahman is Krishna.
He also says in the Bhagavad Gita:
sarva-dharmÄÂn parityajya
mÄÂm ekaṠśharaṇaá¹ vraja |
ahaá¹ tvÄÂá¹ sarva-pÄÂpebhyo
moká¹£hayiá¹£hyÄÂmi mĠśhuchaḥ ||
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
So, both, reading scriptures as well as surrendering to Krishna are methods of liberation. But by reading the scriptures to get liberation, one would have to wait a lot of time in Samsara. By just surrendering to Krishna, one can obtain liberation very easily! If done with the purest of love and devotion and doing ones duty, it is possible to achieve Moksha in this very birth! So I would recommend you to follow the second method, ie. to surrender to Krishna.
6
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
1
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
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up vote
2
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Scriptures do not lead one to moksha.
They study the Vedas and discuss. But they do not realize the Ultimate
Reality just as a spoon does not know the taste of food.
The head carries the flowers, the nose knows the scent. The people
study the Vedas. But, very few persons understand the same.
Not knowing the Reality of the self, a fool is infatuated by the
sastras. When the goat stands in the shed, the shepherd seeks for it
in the well in vain.
The knowledge of the sastras is not competent to destroy the
infatuation accruing from worldly affairs.
….
Having studied the
Vedas and realized their essence the wise man should leave all the
sastras just as one desiring corn leaves the husk.
Just as one satiated with nectar has no use of food, no one who is in
search of Reality has anything to do with the sastras.
One cannot obtain release by reading the Vedas or the sastras. Release
comes from experience, not otherwise, O son of Vinata.
[Garuda Purana, Dharma Khanda, Chapter XLIX]
add a comment |Â
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
8
down vote
By reading scriptures one can not get Moksha. This is a well known conclusion of Hinduism.
Shabda Gyana (which are the scriptures) can not give Moksha. It is the direct perception or the Aparoksha anubhuti that will give.
Here's a verse from Patanjali Yoga Sutras.
shrutanumanaprajnabhyam anyavishayaa vishesharthatvat ||
The knowledge that is gained from testimony and inference is about
common objects. That from the Samadhi just mentioned is of a much
higher order, being able to penetrate where inference and testimony
cannot go.
On this Sutra, Swami Vivekananda's commentary is as follows:
The idea is that we have to get our knowledge of ordinary objects by
direct perception, and by inference therefrom, and from testimony of
people who are competent. By “people who are competent,†the Yogis
always mean the Rishis, or the Seers of the thoughts recorded in the
Scriptures—the Vedas. According to them, the only proof of the
Scriptures is that they were the testimony of competent persons, yet
they say the Scriptures cannot take us to realisation. We can read all
the Vedas, and yet will not realise anything, but when we practise
their teachings, then we attain to that state which realises what the
Scriptures say, which penetrates where reason cannot go, and where the
testimony of others cannot avail. This is what is meant by this
aphorism, that realisation is real religion, and all the rest is only
preparation—hearing lectures, or reading books, or reasoning, is
merely preparing the ground; it is not religion. Intellectual assent,
and intellectual dissent are not religion. The central idea of the
Yogis is that just as we come in direct contact with the objects of
the senses, so religion can be directly perceived in a far more
intense sense.
Regarding direct communication with Krishna - not sure what does that mean. Arjuna etc used to have direct communication with Krishna but they did not get Moksha.
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
By reading scriptures one can not get Moksha. This is a well known conclusion of Hinduism.
Shabda Gyana (which are the scriptures) can not give Moksha. It is the direct perception or the Aparoksha anubhuti that will give.
Here's a verse from Patanjali Yoga Sutras.
shrutanumanaprajnabhyam anyavishayaa vishesharthatvat ||
The knowledge that is gained from testimony and inference is about
common objects. That from the Samadhi just mentioned is of a much
higher order, being able to penetrate where inference and testimony
cannot go.
On this Sutra, Swami Vivekananda's commentary is as follows:
The idea is that we have to get our knowledge of ordinary objects by
direct perception, and by inference therefrom, and from testimony of
people who are competent. By “people who are competent,†the Yogis
always mean the Rishis, or the Seers of the thoughts recorded in the
Scriptures—the Vedas. According to them, the only proof of the
Scriptures is that they were the testimony of competent persons, yet
they say the Scriptures cannot take us to realisation. We can read all
the Vedas, and yet will not realise anything, but when we practise
their teachings, then we attain to that state which realises what the
Scriptures say, which penetrates where reason cannot go, and where the
testimony of others cannot avail. This is what is meant by this
aphorism, that realisation is real religion, and all the rest is only
preparation—hearing lectures, or reading books, or reasoning, is
merely preparing the ground; it is not religion. Intellectual assent,
and intellectual dissent are not religion. The central idea of the
Yogis is that just as we come in direct contact with the objects of
the senses, so religion can be directly perceived in a far more
intense sense.
Regarding direct communication with Krishna - not sure what does that mean. Arjuna etc used to have direct communication with Krishna but they did not get Moksha.
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
8
down vote
up vote
8
down vote
By reading scriptures one can not get Moksha. This is a well known conclusion of Hinduism.
Shabda Gyana (which are the scriptures) can not give Moksha. It is the direct perception or the Aparoksha anubhuti that will give.
Here's a verse from Patanjali Yoga Sutras.
shrutanumanaprajnabhyam anyavishayaa vishesharthatvat ||
The knowledge that is gained from testimony and inference is about
common objects. That from the Samadhi just mentioned is of a much
higher order, being able to penetrate where inference and testimony
cannot go.
On this Sutra, Swami Vivekananda's commentary is as follows:
The idea is that we have to get our knowledge of ordinary objects by
direct perception, and by inference therefrom, and from testimony of
people who are competent. By “people who are competent,†the Yogis
always mean the Rishis, or the Seers of the thoughts recorded in the
Scriptures—the Vedas. According to them, the only proof of the
Scriptures is that they were the testimony of competent persons, yet
they say the Scriptures cannot take us to realisation. We can read all
the Vedas, and yet will not realise anything, but when we practise
their teachings, then we attain to that state which realises what the
Scriptures say, which penetrates where reason cannot go, and where the
testimony of others cannot avail. This is what is meant by this
aphorism, that realisation is real religion, and all the rest is only
preparation—hearing lectures, or reading books, or reasoning, is
merely preparing the ground; it is not religion. Intellectual assent,
and intellectual dissent are not religion. The central idea of the
Yogis is that just as we come in direct contact with the objects of
the senses, so religion can be directly perceived in a far more
intense sense.
Regarding direct communication with Krishna - not sure what does that mean. Arjuna etc used to have direct communication with Krishna but they did not get Moksha.
By reading scriptures one can not get Moksha. This is a well known conclusion of Hinduism.
Shabda Gyana (which are the scriptures) can not give Moksha. It is the direct perception or the Aparoksha anubhuti that will give.
Here's a verse from Patanjali Yoga Sutras.
shrutanumanaprajnabhyam anyavishayaa vishesharthatvat ||
The knowledge that is gained from testimony and inference is about
common objects. That from the Samadhi just mentioned is of a much
higher order, being able to penetrate where inference and testimony
cannot go.
On this Sutra, Swami Vivekananda's commentary is as follows:
The idea is that we have to get our knowledge of ordinary objects by
direct perception, and by inference therefrom, and from testimony of
people who are competent. By “people who are competent,†the Yogis
always mean the Rishis, or the Seers of the thoughts recorded in the
Scriptures—the Vedas. According to them, the only proof of the
Scriptures is that they were the testimony of competent persons, yet
they say the Scriptures cannot take us to realisation. We can read all
the Vedas, and yet will not realise anything, but when we practise
their teachings, then we attain to that state which realises what the
Scriptures say, which penetrates where reason cannot go, and where the
testimony of others cannot avail. This is what is meant by this
aphorism, that realisation is real religion, and all the rest is only
preparation—hearing lectures, or reading books, or reasoning, is
merely preparing the ground; it is not religion. Intellectual assent,
and intellectual dissent are not religion. The central idea of the
Yogis is that just as we come in direct contact with the objects of
the senses, so religion can be directly perceived in a far more
intense sense.
Regarding direct communication with Krishna - not sure what does that mean. Arjuna etc used to have direct communication with Krishna but they did not get Moksha.
answered Aug 6 at 6:03


Rickross
39.2k253150
39.2k253150
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
add a comment |Â
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Aruna didn't get moksha because he is an incarnation of Nara. He returned to his abode Vaikuntha after his death.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 6:51
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
Whatever the reason might be that he did not get Moksha is a fact. Also it's not about him alone. There are plenty of others who also did not get Moksha. That's why i've mentioned "Arjun etc". So, it's not that easy. From what i've seen users of this site have pretty childish opinions and ideas about Moksha. People who are genuinely looking for it must first get Guru Diksha instead of going after self-imagined methods. @Sarvabhouma
– Rickross
Aug 7 at 5:48
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
There are other reasons why Arjuna didn't get moksha besides this. It takes another answer to explain ;). Yeah, I too agree with you on getting moksha. It's not a piece of cake to get easily. Understanding god and spending time with God are two different things.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 7 at 6:06
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Krishna is verily Brahman personified. This is stated on the Bhagavatam, verse 1.3.28:
ete cÄÂá¹Âśa-kalÄÂḥ puá¹Âsaḥ |
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavÄÂn svayam |
indrÄÂri-vyÄÂkulaá¹ lokaá¹Â
mṛá¸Âayanti yuge yuge ||
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, who incarnates on different planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists.
Here, we need to concentrate on the second line, which says ‘Krsnas tu Bhagavan Svayam’. This means ‘But Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. So, Brahman is Krishna.
He also says in the Bhagavad Gita:
sarva-dharmÄÂn parityajya
mÄÂm ekaṠśharaṇaá¹ vraja |
ahaá¹ tvÄÂá¹ sarva-pÄÂpebhyo
moká¹£hayiá¹£hyÄÂmi mĠśhuchaḥ ||
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
So, both, reading scriptures as well as surrendering to Krishna are methods of liberation. But by reading the scriptures to get liberation, one would have to wait a lot of time in Samsara. By just surrendering to Krishna, one can obtain liberation very easily! If done with the purest of love and devotion and doing ones duty, it is possible to achieve Moksha in this very birth! So I would recommend you to follow the second method, ie. to surrender to Krishna.
6
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
1
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
Krishna is verily Brahman personified. This is stated on the Bhagavatam, verse 1.3.28:
ete cÄÂá¹Âśa-kalÄÂḥ puá¹Âsaḥ |
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavÄÂn svayam |
indrÄÂri-vyÄÂkulaá¹ lokaá¹Â
mṛá¸Âayanti yuge yuge ||
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, who incarnates on different planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists.
Here, we need to concentrate on the second line, which says ‘Krsnas tu Bhagavan Svayam’. This means ‘But Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. So, Brahman is Krishna.
He also says in the Bhagavad Gita:
sarva-dharmÄÂn parityajya
mÄÂm ekaṠśharaṇaá¹ vraja |
ahaá¹ tvÄÂá¹ sarva-pÄÂpebhyo
moká¹£hayiá¹£hyÄÂmi mĠśhuchaḥ ||
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
So, both, reading scriptures as well as surrendering to Krishna are methods of liberation. But by reading the scriptures to get liberation, one would have to wait a lot of time in Samsara. By just surrendering to Krishna, one can obtain liberation very easily! If done with the purest of love and devotion and doing ones duty, it is possible to achieve Moksha in this very birth! So I would recommend you to follow the second method, ie. to surrender to Krishna.
6
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
1
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
Krishna is verily Brahman personified. This is stated on the Bhagavatam, verse 1.3.28:
ete cÄÂá¹Âśa-kalÄÂḥ puá¹Âsaḥ |
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavÄÂn svayam |
indrÄÂri-vyÄÂkulaá¹ lokaá¹Â
mṛá¸Âayanti yuge yuge ||
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, who incarnates on different planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists.
Here, we need to concentrate on the second line, which says ‘Krsnas tu Bhagavan Svayam’. This means ‘But Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. So, Brahman is Krishna.
He also says in the Bhagavad Gita:
sarva-dharmÄÂn parityajya
mÄÂm ekaṠśharaṇaá¹ vraja |
ahaá¹ tvÄÂá¹ sarva-pÄÂpebhyo
moká¹£hayiá¹£hyÄÂmi mĠśhuchaḥ ||
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
So, both, reading scriptures as well as surrendering to Krishna are methods of liberation. But by reading the scriptures to get liberation, one would have to wait a lot of time in Samsara. By just surrendering to Krishna, one can obtain liberation very easily! If done with the purest of love and devotion and doing ones duty, it is possible to achieve Moksha in this very birth! So I would recommend you to follow the second method, ie. to surrender to Krishna.
Krishna is verily Brahman personified. This is stated on the Bhagavatam, verse 1.3.28:
ete cÄÂá¹Âśa-kalÄÂḥ puá¹Âsaḥ |
kṛṣṇas tu bhagavÄÂn svayam |
indrÄÂri-vyÄÂkulaá¹ lokaá¹Â
mṛá¸Âayanti yuge yuge ||
All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead, who incarnates on different planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists.
Here, we need to concentrate on the second line, which says ‘Krsnas tu Bhagavan Svayam’. This means ‘But Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. So, Brahman is Krishna.
He also says in the Bhagavad Gita:
sarva-dharmÄÂn parityajya
mÄÂm ekaṠśharaṇaá¹ vraja |
ahaá¹ tvÄÂá¹ sarva-pÄÂpebhyo
moká¹£hayiá¹£hyÄÂmi mĠśhuchaḥ ||
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
So, both, reading scriptures as well as surrendering to Krishna are methods of liberation. But by reading the scriptures to get liberation, one would have to wait a lot of time in Samsara. By just surrendering to Krishna, one can obtain liberation very easily! If done with the purest of love and devotion and doing ones duty, it is possible to achieve Moksha in this very birth! So I would recommend you to follow the second method, ie. to surrender to Krishna.
edited Aug 7 at 8:19
answered Aug 6 at 4:24


Hayagreev Ram
2018
2018
6
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
1
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
add a comment |Â
6
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
1
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
6
6
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
Bhagavan means the one who has "bhaga" which means fortune and it doesn't say "original personality of Godhead". And Goddess Durga is called Bhagavati which also means the one who has Bhaga. And in Sri Rudram (Veda Samhita), Rudra is described as à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ which also means same. So, bhagavan can't be translated as "original Personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 4:31
1
1
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@TheDestroyer I don't think namaste astu bhagavan is a part of Sri Rudram. It is an invocation before reading that.I the above verse, Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate. Everyone who is fortunate can't be called as Bhagavan. It is very very rare.
– Sarvabhouma
Aug 6 at 5:34
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
@Sarvabhouma It's not Namaste astu Bhagavan but Namaste Astu Bhagavaha in middle of Samhita, à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤•à ¤¿à ¤°à ¤¿à ¤¦ à ¤µà ¤¿à ¤²à ¥‹à ¤¹à ¤¿à ¤¤ à ¤¨à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤…à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤Âà ¤—à ¤µà ¤ƒ à ¥¤ à ¤¯à ¤¾à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥‡ à ¤¸à ¤¹à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤°à ¤ à ¤¹à ¥‡à ¤¤à ¤¯à ¥‹à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¯à ¤®à ¤¸à ¥Âà ¤®à ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¨à ¤¿à ¤µà ¤ªà ¤¨à ¥Âà ¤¤à ¥ à ¤¤à ¤¾à ¤ƒ à ¥¥"Bhagavan is used as a proper noun to denote Krishna who is supreme to them rather than common noun who is fortunate". This is subjective and depends on sect one follows. But my point is about translation and Bhagavan can't be translated as "original personality of Godhead"
– The Destroyer♦
Aug 6 at 6:49
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Scriptures do not lead one to moksha.
They study the Vedas and discuss. But they do not realize the Ultimate
Reality just as a spoon does not know the taste of food.
The head carries the flowers, the nose knows the scent. The people
study the Vedas. But, very few persons understand the same.
Not knowing the Reality of the self, a fool is infatuated by the
sastras. When the goat stands in the shed, the shepherd seeks for it
in the well in vain.
The knowledge of the sastras is not competent to destroy the
infatuation accruing from worldly affairs.
….
Having studied the
Vedas and realized their essence the wise man should leave all the
sastras just as one desiring corn leaves the husk.
Just as one satiated with nectar has no use of food, no one who is in
search of Reality has anything to do with the sastras.
One cannot obtain release by reading the Vedas or the sastras. Release
comes from experience, not otherwise, O son of Vinata.
[Garuda Purana, Dharma Khanda, Chapter XLIX]
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
Scriptures do not lead one to moksha.
They study the Vedas and discuss. But they do not realize the Ultimate
Reality just as a spoon does not know the taste of food.
The head carries the flowers, the nose knows the scent. The people
study the Vedas. But, very few persons understand the same.
Not knowing the Reality of the self, a fool is infatuated by the
sastras. When the goat stands in the shed, the shepherd seeks for it
in the well in vain.
The knowledge of the sastras is not competent to destroy the
infatuation accruing from worldly affairs.
….
Having studied the
Vedas and realized their essence the wise man should leave all the
sastras just as one desiring corn leaves the husk.
Just as one satiated with nectar has no use of food, no one who is in
search of Reality has anything to do with the sastras.
One cannot obtain release by reading the Vedas or the sastras. Release
comes from experience, not otherwise, O son of Vinata.
[Garuda Purana, Dharma Khanda, Chapter XLIX]
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Scriptures do not lead one to moksha.
They study the Vedas and discuss. But they do not realize the Ultimate
Reality just as a spoon does not know the taste of food.
The head carries the flowers, the nose knows the scent. The people
study the Vedas. But, very few persons understand the same.
Not knowing the Reality of the self, a fool is infatuated by the
sastras. When the goat stands in the shed, the shepherd seeks for it
in the well in vain.
The knowledge of the sastras is not competent to destroy the
infatuation accruing from worldly affairs.
….
Having studied the
Vedas and realized their essence the wise man should leave all the
sastras just as one desiring corn leaves the husk.
Just as one satiated with nectar has no use of food, no one who is in
search of Reality has anything to do with the sastras.
One cannot obtain release by reading the Vedas or the sastras. Release
comes from experience, not otherwise, O son of Vinata.
[Garuda Purana, Dharma Khanda, Chapter XLIX]
Scriptures do not lead one to moksha.
They study the Vedas and discuss. But they do not realize the Ultimate
Reality just as a spoon does not know the taste of food.
The head carries the flowers, the nose knows the scent. The people
study the Vedas. But, very few persons understand the same.
Not knowing the Reality of the self, a fool is infatuated by the
sastras. When the goat stands in the shed, the shepherd seeks for it
in the well in vain.
The knowledge of the sastras is not competent to destroy the
infatuation accruing from worldly affairs.
….
Having studied the
Vedas and realized their essence the wise man should leave all the
sastras just as one desiring corn leaves the husk.
Just as one satiated with nectar has no use of food, no one who is in
search of Reality has anything to do with the sastras.
One cannot obtain release by reading the Vedas or the sastras. Release
comes from experience, not otherwise, O son of Vinata.
[Garuda Purana, Dharma Khanda, Chapter XLIX]
answered Aug 6 at 13:32
Pradip Gangopadhyay
13.5k1848
13.5k1848
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
4
If you have direct communication with Krishna, that implies that you are already liberated.
– Arkaprabha Majumdar
Aug 6 at 1:26
Krishna = Brahman. Krishna alone = Brahman. So, both are the way.
– ram
Aug 6 at 3:36
2
Saguna Upansasa - Krishna, Nirguna Upasana - Brahman. Also visit Why does Krishna consider/believe the devotee who worship him as saguna superior than who worship as nirguna?.
– Pandya♦
Aug 6 at 3:37
vote to close. primarily opinion based.
– Swami Vishwananda
Aug 6 at 4:43
1
@Uday Krishna Ya it is the effort of the Divine Will power that takes one to the keshetra called Mt Kailash.
– Frank Hestermann
Aug 6 at 6:24