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Is it possible to generate random numbers out of nonrandom numbers? [closed]
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- Let's say we have thousands of pseudo random sets which has been generated by different pseudo random generators, is it possible to have a true random product of these sets?
- What if we take thousands of nonrandom computer binary files and mix them up using some special algorithms?
random-variables random
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Isaac Browne, Daniel Fischer♦ Jul 23 at 19:13
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Daniel Fischer
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
1
- Let's say we have thousands of pseudo random sets which has been generated by different pseudo random generators, is it possible to have a true random product of these sets?
- What if we take thousands of nonrandom computer binary files and mix them up using some special algorithms?
random-variables random
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Isaac Browne, Daniel Fischer♦ Jul 23 at 19:13
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Daniel Fischer
2
If you have the ability to generate something truly random from nonrandom inputs, why bother with the inputs at all?
– MPW
Jul 23 at 17:54
2
“Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin.†—John von Neumann
– MJD
Jul 23 at 18:00
"mix them up using some special algorithms?" The term you're looking for is hashing algorithms. They are meant to be completely deterministic (so no actual randomness) and at the same time as "unpredictable" as possible (so for all intents and purposes, except running them on the same input twice, the results appear to be completely random).
– Arthur
Jul 23 at 18:01
Using the content of computer files won't give you anything "random". Text files will give a distribution of letter occurrence, executables may well be loaded by zeros or most frequently used instructions, data files will also be loaded, in the same way that the frequency of house numbers in streets is biassed towards 1 (because most streets have a house #1 and few have a house #1000 etc).
– Weather Vane
Jul 23 at 18:05
This is really a philosophical question. The knee jerk response is "no, those are only pseudorandom since they're deterministic", but this is very philosophically naive since, I mean, the motion of a die is deterministic as well. You obviously already know about PRNGs, so the only thing open to discuss here is the meaning of the word "random", which is not a mathematical question. I voted to close.
– Jack M
Jul 23 at 18:28
 |Â
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up vote
1
down vote
favorite
1
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
1
1
- Let's say we have thousands of pseudo random sets which has been generated by different pseudo random generators, is it possible to have a true random product of these sets?
- What if we take thousands of nonrandom computer binary files and mix them up using some special algorithms?
random-variables random
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
- Let's say we have thousands of pseudo random sets which has been generated by different pseudo random generators, is it possible to have a true random product of these sets?
- What if we take thousands of nonrandom computer binary files and mix them up using some special algorithms?
random-variables random
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
asked Jul 23 at 17:51
R. Toward
61
61
closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Isaac Browne, Daniel Fischer♦ Jul 23 at 19:13
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Daniel Fischer
closed as off-topic by amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Isaac Browne, Daniel Fischer♦ Jul 23 at 19:13
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please improve the question by providing additional context, which ideally includes your thoughts on the problem and any attempts you have made to solve it. This information helps others identify where you have difficulties and helps them write answers appropriate to your experience level." – amWhy, Mostafa Ayaz, Jack M, Daniel Fischer
2
If you have the ability to generate something truly random from nonrandom inputs, why bother with the inputs at all?
– MPW
Jul 23 at 17:54
2
“Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin.†—John von Neumann
– MJD
Jul 23 at 18:00
"mix them up using some special algorithms?" The term you're looking for is hashing algorithms. They are meant to be completely deterministic (so no actual randomness) and at the same time as "unpredictable" as possible (so for all intents and purposes, except running them on the same input twice, the results appear to be completely random).
– Arthur
Jul 23 at 18:01
Using the content of computer files won't give you anything "random". Text files will give a distribution of letter occurrence, executables may well be loaded by zeros or most frequently used instructions, data files will also be loaded, in the same way that the frequency of house numbers in streets is biassed towards 1 (because most streets have a house #1 and few have a house #1000 etc).
– Weather Vane
Jul 23 at 18:05
This is really a philosophical question. The knee jerk response is "no, those are only pseudorandom since they're deterministic", but this is very philosophically naive since, I mean, the motion of a die is deterministic as well. You obviously already know about PRNGs, so the only thing open to discuss here is the meaning of the word "random", which is not a mathematical question. I voted to close.
– Jack M
Jul 23 at 18:28
 |Â
show 3 more comments
2
If you have the ability to generate something truly random from nonrandom inputs, why bother with the inputs at all?
– MPW
Jul 23 at 17:54
2
“Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin.†—John von Neumann
– MJD
Jul 23 at 18:00
"mix them up using some special algorithms?" The term you're looking for is hashing algorithms. They are meant to be completely deterministic (so no actual randomness) and at the same time as "unpredictable" as possible (so for all intents and purposes, except running them on the same input twice, the results appear to be completely random).
– Arthur
Jul 23 at 18:01
Using the content of computer files won't give you anything "random". Text files will give a distribution of letter occurrence, executables may well be loaded by zeros or most frequently used instructions, data files will also be loaded, in the same way that the frequency of house numbers in streets is biassed towards 1 (because most streets have a house #1 and few have a house #1000 etc).
– Weather Vane
Jul 23 at 18:05
This is really a philosophical question. The knee jerk response is "no, those are only pseudorandom since they're deterministic", but this is very philosophically naive since, I mean, the motion of a die is deterministic as well. You obviously already know about PRNGs, so the only thing open to discuss here is the meaning of the word "random", which is not a mathematical question. I voted to close.
– Jack M
Jul 23 at 18:28
2
2
If you have the ability to generate something truly random from nonrandom inputs, why bother with the inputs at all?
– MPW
Jul 23 at 17:54
If you have the ability to generate something truly random from nonrandom inputs, why bother with the inputs at all?
– MPW
Jul 23 at 17:54
2
2
“Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin.†—John von Neumann
– MJD
Jul 23 at 18:00
“Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin.†—John von Neumann
– MJD
Jul 23 at 18:00
"mix them up using some special algorithms?" The term you're looking for is hashing algorithms. They are meant to be completely deterministic (so no actual randomness) and at the same time as "unpredictable" as possible (so for all intents and purposes, except running them on the same input twice, the results appear to be completely random).
– Arthur
Jul 23 at 18:01
"mix them up using some special algorithms?" The term you're looking for is hashing algorithms. They are meant to be completely deterministic (so no actual randomness) and at the same time as "unpredictable" as possible (so for all intents and purposes, except running them on the same input twice, the results appear to be completely random).
– Arthur
Jul 23 at 18:01
Using the content of computer files won't give you anything "random". Text files will give a distribution of letter occurrence, executables may well be loaded by zeros or most frequently used instructions, data files will also be loaded, in the same way that the frequency of house numbers in streets is biassed towards 1 (because most streets have a house #1 and few have a house #1000 etc).
– Weather Vane
Jul 23 at 18:05
Using the content of computer files won't give you anything "random". Text files will give a distribution of letter occurrence, executables may well be loaded by zeros or most frequently used instructions, data files will also be loaded, in the same way that the frequency of house numbers in streets is biassed towards 1 (because most streets have a house #1 and few have a house #1000 etc).
– Weather Vane
Jul 23 at 18:05
This is really a philosophical question. The knee jerk response is "no, those are only pseudorandom since they're deterministic", but this is very philosophically naive since, I mean, the motion of a die is deterministic as well. You obviously already know about PRNGs, so the only thing open to discuss here is the meaning of the word "random", which is not a mathematical question. I voted to close.
– Jack M
Jul 23 at 18:28
This is really a philosophical question. The knee jerk response is "no, those are only pseudorandom since they're deterministic", but this is very philosophically naive since, I mean, the motion of a die is deterministic as well. You obviously already know about PRNGs, so the only thing open to discuss here is the meaning of the word "random", which is not a mathematical question. I voted to close.
– Jack M
Jul 23 at 18:28
 |Â
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1 Answer
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No, it is not possible.
On this way, you get more and more complicated pseudorandom sources, but not a true random source.
True randomness is, by definition, is coming from a non-deterministic source.
However, if you are enough good in math, you might reach the level of a cryptographically secure random source.
For the actually applied task, even CSPRNG or a pseudorandom source might be enough.
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
0
down vote
No, it is not possible.
On this way, you get more and more complicated pseudorandom sources, but not a true random source.
True randomness is, by definition, is coming from a non-deterministic source.
However, if you are enough good in math, you might reach the level of a cryptographically secure random source.
For the actually applied task, even CSPRNG or a pseudorandom source might be enough.
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
No, it is not possible.
On this way, you get more and more complicated pseudorandom sources, but not a true random source.
True randomness is, by definition, is coming from a non-deterministic source.
However, if you are enough good in math, you might reach the level of a cryptographically secure random source.
For the actually applied task, even CSPRNG or a pseudorandom source might be enough.
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
No, it is not possible.
On this way, you get more and more complicated pseudorandom sources, but not a true random source.
True randomness is, by definition, is coming from a non-deterministic source.
However, if you are enough good in math, you might reach the level of a cryptographically secure random source.
For the actually applied task, even CSPRNG or a pseudorandom source might be enough.
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
No, it is not possible.
On this way, you get more and more complicated pseudorandom sources, but not a true random source.
True randomness is, by definition, is coming from a non-deterministic source.
However, if you are enough good in math, you might reach the level of a cryptographically secure random source.
For the actually applied task, even CSPRNG or a pseudorandom source might be enough.
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
answered Jul 23 at 18:21
peterh
2,14731631
2,14731631
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
2
If you have the ability to generate something truly random from nonrandom inputs, why bother with the inputs at all?
– MPW
Jul 23 at 17:54
2
“Any one who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin.†—John von Neumann
– MJD
Jul 23 at 18:00
"mix them up using some special algorithms?" The term you're looking for is hashing algorithms. They are meant to be completely deterministic (so no actual randomness) and at the same time as "unpredictable" as possible (so for all intents and purposes, except running them on the same input twice, the results appear to be completely random).
– Arthur
Jul 23 at 18:01
Using the content of computer files won't give you anything "random". Text files will give a distribution of letter occurrence, executables may well be loaded by zeros or most frequently used instructions, data files will also be loaded, in the same way that the frequency of house numbers in streets is biassed towards 1 (because most streets have a house #1 and few have a house #1000 etc).
– Weather Vane
Jul 23 at 18:05
This is really a philosophical question. The knee jerk response is "no, those are only pseudorandom since they're deterministic", but this is very philosophically naive since, I mean, the motion of a die is deterministic as well. You obviously already know about PRNGs, so the only thing open to discuss here is the meaning of the word "random", which is not a mathematical question. I voted to close.
– Jack M
Jul 23 at 18:28