Definition of dependence in probability

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Here is classical definition and example of dependent events.



"When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event. For example, if you were to draw a two cards from a deck of $52$ cards. If on your first draw you had an ace and you put that aside, the probability of drawing an ace on the second draw is greatly changed because you drew an ace the first time".



Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview ($B$) will take place only if I pass the first interview ($A$). So, we have probabilities of $P(A)$ and $P(B)$. Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But $B$ will not take place if $A$ was a failure. So $P(B)ne P(Bmid A)$. So, can it be said that events $A$ and $B$ are dependent?



Thanks!







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  • 2




    Your title "combinatorics problem" does not match the question or tags at all.
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12






  • 1




    And of course the two events depend on eachother; you say yourself that the second interview will take place only if you pass the first. Perhaps you should clarify (for yourself) what $A$ and $B$ are; the interviews taking place, or passing the interviews?
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12











  • Thanks. Sorry for the title confusion. I fixed it. So, if I define the event A as "Passing the first interview" and event B as "Passing the second interview", then they are independent. But if it is "passing" each stage, then they are dependent. Correct?
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:24










  • @John, no, you cannot pass an interview if the interview does not take place.
    – Graham Kemp
    Aug 6 at 8:38










  • OK, OK. I see. Now it is clear. Thanks
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:41














up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












Here is classical definition and example of dependent events.



"When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event. For example, if you were to draw a two cards from a deck of $52$ cards. If on your first draw you had an ace and you put that aside, the probability of drawing an ace on the second draw is greatly changed because you drew an ace the first time".



Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview ($B$) will take place only if I pass the first interview ($A$). So, we have probabilities of $P(A)$ and $P(B)$. Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But $B$ will not take place if $A$ was a failure. So $P(B)ne P(Bmid A)$. So, can it be said that events $A$ and $B$ are dependent?



Thanks!







share|cite|improve this question

















  • 2




    Your title "combinatorics problem" does not match the question or tags at all.
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12






  • 1




    And of course the two events depend on eachother; you say yourself that the second interview will take place only if you pass the first. Perhaps you should clarify (for yourself) what $A$ and $B$ are; the interviews taking place, or passing the interviews?
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12











  • Thanks. Sorry for the title confusion. I fixed it. So, if I define the event A as "Passing the first interview" and event B as "Passing the second interview", then they are independent. But if it is "passing" each stage, then they are dependent. Correct?
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:24










  • @John, no, you cannot pass an interview if the interview does not take place.
    – Graham Kemp
    Aug 6 at 8:38










  • OK, OK. I see. Now it is clear. Thanks
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:41












up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





Here is classical definition and example of dependent events.



"When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event. For example, if you were to draw a two cards from a deck of $52$ cards. If on your first draw you had an ace and you put that aside, the probability of drawing an ace on the second draw is greatly changed because you drew an ace the first time".



Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview ($B$) will take place only if I pass the first interview ($A$). So, we have probabilities of $P(A)$ and $P(B)$. Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But $B$ will not take place if $A$ was a failure. So $P(B)ne P(Bmid A)$. So, can it be said that events $A$ and $B$ are dependent?



Thanks!







share|cite|improve this question













Here is classical definition and example of dependent events.



"When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event. For example, if you were to draw a two cards from a deck of $52$ cards. If on your first draw you had an ace and you put that aside, the probability of drawing an ace on the second draw is greatly changed because you drew an ace the first time".



Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview ($B$) will take place only if I pass the first interview ($A$). So, we have probabilities of $P(A)$ and $P(B)$. Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But $B$ will not take place if $A$ was a failure. So $P(B)ne P(Bmid A)$. So, can it be said that events $A$ and $B$ are dependent?



Thanks!









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share|cite|improve this question




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edited Aug 6 at 11:00
























asked Aug 6 at 8:09









John

463




463







  • 2




    Your title "combinatorics problem" does not match the question or tags at all.
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12






  • 1




    And of course the two events depend on eachother; you say yourself that the second interview will take place only if you pass the first. Perhaps you should clarify (for yourself) what $A$ and $B$ are; the interviews taking place, or passing the interviews?
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12











  • Thanks. Sorry for the title confusion. I fixed it. So, if I define the event A as "Passing the first interview" and event B as "Passing the second interview", then they are independent. But if it is "passing" each stage, then they are dependent. Correct?
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:24










  • @John, no, you cannot pass an interview if the interview does not take place.
    – Graham Kemp
    Aug 6 at 8:38










  • OK, OK. I see. Now it is clear. Thanks
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:41












  • 2




    Your title "combinatorics problem" does not match the question or tags at all.
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12






  • 1




    And of course the two events depend on eachother; you say yourself that the second interview will take place only if you pass the first. Perhaps you should clarify (for yourself) what $A$ and $B$ are; the interviews taking place, or passing the interviews?
    – Servaes
    Aug 6 at 8:12











  • Thanks. Sorry for the title confusion. I fixed it. So, if I define the event A as "Passing the first interview" and event B as "Passing the second interview", then they are independent. But if it is "passing" each stage, then they are dependent. Correct?
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:24










  • @John, no, you cannot pass an interview if the interview does not take place.
    – Graham Kemp
    Aug 6 at 8:38










  • OK, OK. I see. Now it is clear. Thanks
    – John
    Aug 6 at 8:41







2




2




Your title "combinatorics problem" does not match the question or tags at all.
– Servaes
Aug 6 at 8:12




Your title "combinatorics problem" does not match the question or tags at all.
– Servaes
Aug 6 at 8:12




1




1




And of course the two events depend on eachother; you say yourself that the second interview will take place only if you pass the first. Perhaps you should clarify (for yourself) what $A$ and $B$ are; the interviews taking place, or passing the interviews?
– Servaes
Aug 6 at 8:12





And of course the two events depend on eachother; you say yourself that the second interview will take place only if you pass the first. Perhaps you should clarify (for yourself) what $A$ and $B$ are; the interviews taking place, or passing the interviews?
– Servaes
Aug 6 at 8:12













Thanks. Sorry for the title confusion. I fixed it. So, if I define the event A as "Passing the first interview" and event B as "Passing the second interview", then they are independent. But if it is "passing" each stage, then they are dependent. Correct?
– John
Aug 6 at 8:24




Thanks. Sorry for the title confusion. I fixed it. So, if I define the event A as "Passing the first interview" and event B as "Passing the second interview", then they are independent. But if it is "passing" each stage, then they are dependent. Correct?
– John
Aug 6 at 8:24












@John, no, you cannot pass an interview if the interview does not take place.
– Graham Kemp
Aug 6 at 8:38




@John, no, you cannot pass an interview if the interview does not take place.
– Graham Kemp
Aug 6 at 8:38












OK, OK. I see. Now it is clear. Thanks
– John
Aug 6 at 8:41




OK, OK. I see. Now it is clear. Thanks
– John
Aug 6 at 8:41










3 Answers
3






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up vote
1
down vote













Perhaps the most concise definition of independent events is $P(A,textand,B)=P(A)P(B)$. In your example, constants $p,,q$ exist for which $P(A)=p,,P(A,textand,B)=P(B)=q$, with independence only if $p=1$.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    1. "When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event."


    2. "Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview (B) will take place only if I pass the first interview (A). So, we have probabilities of P(A) and P(B). Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But B will not take place if A was a failure."


    Reasoning: Event B cannot occur without event A occurring before it.



    Conclusion: A and B are dependent events.






    share|cite|improve this answer

















    • 1




      Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
      – John
      Aug 6 at 8:26










    • It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
      – CaptainAmerica16
      Aug 6 at 8:31











    • To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
      – CaptainAmerica16
      Aug 6 at 8:32










    • Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
      – CaptainAmerica16
      Aug 6 at 8:35







    • 1




      Thanks for the help!
      – John
      Aug 6 at 8:41

















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    We say two events $A$ and $B$ are independent if knowing that one had occurred gave us no information about whether the other had occurred is



    $$P(A|B) = P(A) $$



    and



    $$P(B|A) = P(B)$$



    now we know



    $$ P(A) = P(A|B) = fracP(A cap B)P(B) $$



    then



    $$ P(A cap B) = P(A)P(B)$$



    clear if they do depend on each other this is not the case






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Perhaps the most concise definition of independent events is $P(A,textand,B)=P(A)P(B)$. In your example, constants $p,,q$ exist for which $P(A)=p,,P(A,textand,B)=P(B)=q$, with independence only if $p=1$.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        Perhaps the most concise definition of independent events is $P(A,textand,B)=P(A)P(B)$. In your example, constants $p,,q$ exist for which $P(A)=p,,P(A,textand,B)=P(B)=q$, with independence only if $p=1$.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          Perhaps the most concise definition of independent events is $P(A,textand,B)=P(A)P(B)$. In your example, constants $p,,q$ exist for which $P(A)=p,,P(A,textand,B)=P(B)=q$, with independence only if $p=1$.






          share|cite|improve this answer













          Perhaps the most concise definition of independent events is $P(A,textand,B)=P(A)P(B)$. In your example, constants $p,,q$ exist for which $P(A)=p,,P(A,textand,B)=P(B)=q$, with independence only if $p=1$.







          share|cite|improve this answer













          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer











          answered Aug 6 at 8:44









          J.G.

          13.4k11424




          13.4k11424




















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              1. "When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event."


              2. "Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview (B) will take place only if I pass the first interview (A). So, we have probabilities of P(A) and P(B). Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But B will not take place if A was a failure."


              Reasoning: Event B cannot occur without event A occurring before it.



              Conclusion: A and B are dependent events.






              share|cite|improve this answer

















              • 1




                Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:26










              • It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:31











              • To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:32










              • Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:35







              • 1




                Thanks for the help!
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:41














              up vote
              0
              down vote













              1. "When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event."


              2. "Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview (B) will take place only if I pass the first interview (A). So, we have probabilities of P(A) and P(B). Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But B will not take place if A was a failure."


              Reasoning: Event B cannot occur without event A occurring before it.



              Conclusion: A and B are dependent events.






              share|cite|improve this answer

















              • 1




                Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:26










              • It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:31











              • To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:32










              • Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:35







              • 1




                Thanks for the help!
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:41












              up vote
              0
              down vote










              up vote
              0
              down vote









              1. "When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event."


              2. "Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview (B) will take place only if I pass the first interview (A). So, we have probabilities of P(A) and P(B). Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But B will not take place if A was a failure."


              Reasoning: Event B cannot occur without event A occurring before it.



              Conclusion: A and B are dependent events.






              share|cite|improve this answer













              1. "When two events are said to be dependent, the probability of one event occurring influences the likelihood of the other event."


              2. "Let’s consider another scenario: Suppose I apply to a job. There are two interviews. The second interview (B) will take place only if I pass the first interview (A). So, we have probabilities of P(A) and P(B). Two events per se do not depend on each other because different people conduct the interviews. But B will not take place if A was a failure."


              Reasoning: Event B cannot occur without event A occurring before it.



              Conclusion: A and B are dependent events.







              share|cite|improve this answer













              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer











              answered Aug 6 at 8:18









              CaptainAmerica16

              171110




              171110







              • 1




                Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:26










              • It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:31











              • To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:32










              • Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:35







              • 1




                Thanks for the help!
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:41












              • 1




                Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:26










              • It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:31











              • To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:32










              • Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
                – CaptainAmerica16
                Aug 6 at 8:35







              • 1




                Thanks for the help!
                – John
                Aug 6 at 8:41







              1




              1




              Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
              – John
              Aug 6 at 8:26




              Thanks. Will you agree that this is the matter of event definition (see my reply to Servaes)?
              – John
              Aug 6 at 8:26












              It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
              – CaptainAmerica16
              Aug 6 at 8:31





              It definitely is a matter of definition, but it also is a matter of phrasing. Reading your comment, each definition effectively means the same thing if you are defining Event A as a parameter of getting to Event B like you have above.
              – CaptainAmerica16
              Aug 6 at 8:31













              To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
              – CaptainAmerica16
              Aug 6 at 8:32




              To be truly independent, each event cannot have an effect on the outcome of the other.
              – CaptainAmerica16
              Aug 6 at 8:32












              Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
              – CaptainAmerica16
              Aug 6 at 8:35





              Think of A and B as two separate interviews. Passing A will not result in you gaining or losing B unless of course you add more parameters such as the time of the interviews.
              – CaptainAmerica16
              Aug 6 at 8:35





              1




              1




              Thanks for the help!
              – John
              Aug 6 at 8:41




              Thanks for the help!
              – John
              Aug 6 at 8:41










              up vote
              0
              down vote













              We say two events $A$ and $B$ are independent if knowing that one had occurred gave us no information about whether the other had occurred is



              $$P(A|B) = P(A) $$



              and



              $$P(B|A) = P(B)$$



              now we know



              $$ P(A) = P(A|B) = fracP(A cap B)P(B) $$



              then



              $$ P(A cap B) = P(A)P(B)$$



              clear if they do depend on each other this is not the case






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                We say two events $A$ and $B$ are independent if knowing that one had occurred gave us no information about whether the other had occurred is



                $$P(A|B) = P(A) $$



                and



                $$P(B|A) = P(B)$$



                now we know



                $$ P(A) = P(A|B) = fracP(A cap B)P(B) $$



                then



                $$ P(A cap B) = P(A)P(B)$$



                clear if they do depend on each other this is not the case






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  We say two events $A$ and $B$ are independent if knowing that one had occurred gave us no information about whether the other had occurred is



                  $$P(A|B) = P(A) $$



                  and



                  $$P(B|A) = P(B)$$



                  now we know



                  $$ P(A) = P(A|B) = fracP(A cap B)P(B) $$



                  then



                  $$ P(A cap B) = P(A)P(B)$$



                  clear if they do depend on each other this is not the case






                  share|cite|improve this answer













                  We say two events $A$ and $B$ are independent if knowing that one had occurred gave us no information about whether the other had occurred is



                  $$P(A|B) = P(A) $$



                  and



                  $$P(B|A) = P(B)$$



                  now we know



                  $$ P(A) = P(A|B) = fracP(A cap B)P(B) $$



                  then



                  $$ P(A cap B) = P(A)P(B)$$



                  clear if they do depend on each other this is not the case







                  share|cite|improve this answer













                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  answered Aug 6 at 8:40









                  RHowe

                  1,025815




                  1,025815






















                       

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