Limits for sequences: Prove that $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$

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Prove that $$lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$$




Note, this is a sequence.



I know that a sequence $(c_n)_n=1^infty$ converges to a finite value L if for every $epsilon > 0$, there exists some $N>0$ so that for all $n$ it holds that:
$$n > N implies |c_n - L| < epsilon$$.



I've learnt this in school: $|c_n - L| < epsilon$ is the distance between each sequence term and the epsilon-value. If we can write $n$ in terms of epsilon, then for any epsilon, we can easily 'choose' an N-value, so that the implication above holds.



I'm afraid I haven't gotten further than this... :



$$left|frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 - (-2)right| < epsilon iff left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$



I just can't seem to reduce $n$ in a way that would help me solve this inequality...
I don't know if there is some algebraic trick that is going over my head or if there is some "theoretical trick" which I could use to simplify. Please, a hint would be greatly appreciated.







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  • 1




    Advice: Don't start a question with TLDR.
    – amWhy
    Jul 24 at 23:41






  • 1




    Here's a general strategy: Let $f(x) = frac2x^2-3x+59 - x^2$, so that $f(n) = c_n$ when $n = 1 , 2, 3, dots$. Note that $lim_x to infty f(x) = -2$, by say, L'Hopital's Rule, or by dividing top and bottom by $x^2$ (just like in Doug's answer below). If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$ too. Note that this implication only goes one way. If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$, but the converse is false in general.
    – JavaMan
    Jul 25 at 3:01














up vote
2
down vote

favorite













Prove that $$lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$$




Note, this is a sequence.



I know that a sequence $(c_n)_n=1^infty$ converges to a finite value L if for every $epsilon > 0$, there exists some $N>0$ so that for all $n$ it holds that:
$$n > N implies |c_n - L| < epsilon$$.



I've learnt this in school: $|c_n - L| < epsilon$ is the distance between each sequence term and the epsilon-value. If we can write $n$ in terms of epsilon, then for any epsilon, we can easily 'choose' an N-value, so that the implication above holds.



I'm afraid I haven't gotten further than this... :



$$left|frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 - (-2)right| < epsilon iff left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$



I just can't seem to reduce $n$ in a way that would help me solve this inequality...
I don't know if there is some algebraic trick that is going over my head or if there is some "theoretical trick" which I could use to simplify. Please, a hint would be greatly appreciated.







share|cite|improve this question

















  • 1




    Advice: Don't start a question with TLDR.
    – amWhy
    Jul 24 at 23:41






  • 1




    Here's a general strategy: Let $f(x) = frac2x^2-3x+59 - x^2$, so that $f(n) = c_n$ when $n = 1 , 2, 3, dots$. Note that $lim_x to infty f(x) = -2$, by say, L'Hopital's Rule, or by dividing top and bottom by $x^2$ (just like in Doug's answer below). If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$ too. Note that this implication only goes one way. If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$, but the converse is false in general.
    – JavaMan
    Jul 25 at 3:01












up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite












Prove that $$lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$$




Note, this is a sequence.



I know that a sequence $(c_n)_n=1^infty$ converges to a finite value L if for every $epsilon > 0$, there exists some $N>0$ so that for all $n$ it holds that:
$$n > N implies |c_n - L| < epsilon$$.



I've learnt this in school: $|c_n - L| < epsilon$ is the distance between each sequence term and the epsilon-value. If we can write $n$ in terms of epsilon, then for any epsilon, we can easily 'choose' an N-value, so that the implication above holds.



I'm afraid I haven't gotten further than this... :



$$left|frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 - (-2)right| < epsilon iff left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$



I just can't seem to reduce $n$ in a way that would help me solve this inequality...
I don't know if there is some algebraic trick that is going over my head or if there is some "theoretical trick" which I could use to simplify. Please, a hint would be greatly appreciated.







share|cite|improve this question














Prove that $$lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$$




Note, this is a sequence.



I know that a sequence $(c_n)_n=1^infty$ converges to a finite value L if for every $epsilon > 0$, there exists some $N>0$ so that for all $n$ it holds that:
$$n > N implies |c_n - L| < epsilon$$.



I've learnt this in school: $|c_n - L| < epsilon$ is the distance between each sequence term and the epsilon-value. If we can write $n$ in terms of epsilon, then for any epsilon, we can easily 'choose' an N-value, so that the implication above holds.



I'm afraid I haven't gotten further than this... :



$$left|frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 - (-2)right| < epsilon iff left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$



I just can't seem to reduce $n$ in a way that would help me solve this inequality...
I don't know if there is some algebraic trick that is going over my head or if there is some "theoretical trick" which I could use to simplify. Please, a hint would be greatly appreciated.









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share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jul 25 at 1:13









Lolita

52318




52318









asked Jul 24 at 23:34









user9750060

13710




13710







  • 1




    Advice: Don't start a question with TLDR.
    – amWhy
    Jul 24 at 23:41






  • 1




    Here's a general strategy: Let $f(x) = frac2x^2-3x+59 - x^2$, so that $f(n) = c_n$ when $n = 1 , 2, 3, dots$. Note that $lim_x to infty f(x) = -2$, by say, L'Hopital's Rule, or by dividing top and bottom by $x^2$ (just like in Doug's answer below). If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$ too. Note that this implication only goes one way. If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$, but the converse is false in general.
    – JavaMan
    Jul 25 at 3:01












  • 1




    Advice: Don't start a question with TLDR.
    – amWhy
    Jul 24 at 23:41






  • 1




    Here's a general strategy: Let $f(x) = frac2x^2-3x+59 - x^2$, so that $f(n) = c_n$ when $n = 1 , 2, 3, dots$. Note that $lim_x to infty f(x) = -2$, by say, L'Hopital's Rule, or by dividing top and bottom by $x^2$ (just like in Doug's answer below). If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$ too. Note that this implication only goes one way. If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$, but the converse is false in general.
    – JavaMan
    Jul 25 at 3:01







1




1




Advice: Don't start a question with TLDR.
– amWhy
Jul 24 at 23:41




Advice: Don't start a question with TLDR.
– amWhy
Jul 24 at 23:41




1




1




Here's a general strategy: Let $f(x) = frac2x^2-3x+59 - x^2$, so that $f(n) = c_n$ when $n = 1 , 2, 3, dots$. Note that $lim_x to infty f(x) = -2$, by say, L'Hopital's Rule, or by dividing top and bottom by $x^2$ (just like in Doug's answer below). If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$ too. Note that this implication only goes one way. If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$, but the converse is false in general.
– JavaMan
Jul 25 at 3:01




Here's a general strategy: Let $f(x) = frac2x^2-3x+59 - x^2$, so that $f(n) = c_n$ when $n = 1 , 2, 3, dots$. Note that $lim_x to infty f(x) = -2$, by say, L'Hopital's Rule, or by dividing top and bottom by $x^2$ (just like in Doug's answer below). If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$ too. Note that this implication only goes one way. If $lim_x to infty f(x) = L$, then $lim_n to infty c_n = L$, but the converse is false in general.
– JavaMan
Jul 25 at 3:01










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










The quick way:



$lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$



Divide to and bottom by $n^2$



$lim_n rightarrow infty frac2 - frac 3n + frac 5n^2- 1 + frac 9n^2 = -2$



And when $n$ gets to be large the $frac 1n$ terms become small. The $epsilon-delta$ definition is not necessry.



But if that is the direction you want to go.



There exists an $N$ such that $n>N$ implies $left|frac 3n-23n^2-9right| < epsilon$



let $N = max (frac 3epsilon,4)$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
    – user9750060
    Jul 24 at 23:50

















up vote
1
down vote













Hint: prove that $frac23-3n9-n^2to 0$.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
    – user9750060
    Jul 24 at 23:43










  • Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
    – user9750060
    Jul 24 at 23:47

















up vote
1
down vote













You want so show that $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$ First when $n$ is large enough ($n>8$) $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| =frac3n-23n^2-9<frac3nn^2-9
$$
Also, if $n$ is this large, we have $n^2-9>left(fracn2right)^2$ so $$frac3nn^2-9<frac12nn^2=frac12n$$



Therefore, it's enough to take $$n > maxleft(8,frac12epsilonright)$$



NOTE



I don't recommend doing it this way. You should just show the fraction goes to $0$ which guarantees the existence of such an $N$. Doing it this way is more tedious, no more rigorous, and in my view, adds nothing to understanding.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    If we take $n > 3+frac6varepsilon$ we have $ frac3n-3 < fracvarepsilon2$, and if we take $n > sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9$ we have $ frac14n^2-9 < fracvarepsilon2$.



    Therefore for $n ge maxleft4, 3+frac6varepsilon, sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9right$ we have



    beginalign
    left|frac2n^2-3n+59-n^2+2right| &= frac23-3n\
    &le frac3n+23(n+3)(n-3)\
    &= frac3(n+3)+14(n+3)(n-3)\
    &= frac3n-3 + frac14n^2-9\
    &< fracvarepsilon2 + fracvarepsilon2\
    &= varepsilon
    endalign






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      The quick way:



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$



      Divide to and bottom by $n^2$



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2 - frac 3n + frac 5n^2- 1 + frac 9n^2 = -2$



      And when $n$ gets to be large the $frac 1n$ terms become small. The $epsilon-delta$ definition is not necessry.



      But if that is the direction you want to go.



      There exists an $N$ such that $n>N$ implies $left|frac 3n-23n^2-9right| < epsilon$



      let $N = max (frac 3epsilon,4)$






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:50














      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted










      The quick way:



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$



      Divide to and bottom by $n^2$



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2 - frac 3n + frac 5n^2- 1 + frac 9n^2 = -2$



      And when $n$ gets to be large the $frac 1n$ terms become small. The $epsilon-delta$ definition is not necessry.



      But if that is the direction you want to go.



      There exists an $N$ such that $n>N$ implies $left|frac 3n-23n^2-9right| < epsilon$



      let $N = max (frac 3epsilon,4)$






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:50












      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      1
      down vote



      accepted






      The quick way:



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$



      Divide to and bottom by $n^2$



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2 - frac 3n + frac 5n^2- 1 + frac 9n^2 = -2$



      And when $n$ gets to be large the $frac 1n$ terms become small. The $epsilon-delta$ definition is not necessry.



      But if that is the direction you want to go.



      There exists an $N$ such that $n>N$ implies $left|frac 3n-23n^2-9right| < epsilon$



      let $N = max (frac 3epsilon,4)$






      share|cite|improve this answer













      The quick way:



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2n^2 - 3n + 59 - n^2 = -2$



      Divide to and bottom by $n^2$



      $lim_n rightarrow infty frac2 - frac 3n + frac 5n^2- 1 + frac 9n^2 = -2$



      And when $n$ gets to be large the $frac 1n$ terms become small. The $epsilon-delta$ definition is not necessry.



      But if that is the direction you want to go.



      There exists an $N$ such that $n>N$ implies $left|frac 3n-23n^2-9right| < epsilon$



      let $N = max (frac 3epsilon,4)$







      share|cite|improve this answer













      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer











      answered Jul 24 at 23:47









      Doug M

      39k31749




      39k31749











      • Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:50
















      • Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:50















      Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
      – user9750060
      Jul 24 at 23:50




      Great thanks! One more question - when should I use 'the quick way' and when should I use epsilon-delta? I don't exactly understand what 'proving a limit' means...
      – user9750060
      Jul 24 at 23:50










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Hint: prove that $frac23-3n9-n^2to 0$.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:43










      • Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:47














      up vote
      1
      down vote













      Hint: prove that $frac23-3n9-n^2to 0$.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:43










      • Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:47












      up vote
      1
      down vote










      up vote
      1
      down vote









      Hint: prove that $frac23-3n9-n^2to 0$.






      share|cite|improve this answer













      Hint: prove that $frac23-3n9-n^2to 0$.







      share|cite|improve this answer













      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer











      answered Jul 24 at 23:38









      Martín Vacas Vignolo

      3,418421




      3,418421











      • I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:43










      • Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:47
















      • I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:43










      • Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
        – user9750060
        Jul 24 at 23:47















      I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
      – user9750060
      Jul 24 at 23:43




      I understand that this proves that the sequence converges, but how will the condition n > N be met? I was taught that we have to write n in terms of epsilon so that for any given epsilon, it would be simple to determine N.
      – user9750060
      Jul 24 at 23:43












      Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
      – user9750060
      Jul 24 at 23:47




      Should I use the comparison theorem to prove that the expression converges and then use my comparison to get epsilon in terms of n?
      – user9750060
      Jul 24 at 23:47










      up vote
      1
      down vote













      You want so show that $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$ First when $n$ is large enough ($n>8$) $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| =frac3n-23n^2-9<frac3nn^2-9
      $$
      Also, if $n$ is this large, we have $n^2-9>left(fracn2right)^2$ so $$frac3nn^2-9<frac12nn^2=frac12n$$



      Therefore, it's enough to take $$n > maxleft(8,frac12epsilonright)$$



      NOTE



      I don't recommend doing it this way. You should just show the fraction goes to $0$ which guarantees the existence of such an $N$. Doing it this way is more tedious, no more rigorous, and in my view, adds nothing to understanding.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        You want so show that $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$ First when $n$ is large enough ($n>8$) $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| =frac3n-23n^2-9<frac3nn^2-9
        $$
        Also, if $n$ is this large, we have $n^2-9>left(fracn2right)^2$ so $$frac3nn^2-9<frac12nn^2=frac12n$$



        Therefore, it's enough to take $$n > maxleft(8,frac12epsilonright)$$



        NOTE



        I don't recommend doing it this way. You should just show the fraction goes to $0$ which guarantees the existence of such an $N$. Doing it this way is more tedious, no more rigorous, and in my view, adds nothing to understanding.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          You want so show that $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$ First when $n$ is large enough ($n>8$) $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| =frac3n-23n^2-9<frac3nn^2-9
          $$
          Also, if $n$ is this large, we have $n^2-9>left(fracn2right)^2$ so $$frac3nn^2-9<frac12nn^2=frac12n$$



          Therefore, it's enough to take $$n > maxleft(8,frac12epsilonright)$$



          NOTE



          I don't recommend doing it this way. You should just show the fraction goes to $0$ which guarantees the existence of such an $N$. Doing it this way is more tedious, no more rigorous, and in my view, adds nothing to understanding.






          share|cite|improve this answer













          You want so show that $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| < epsilon$$ First when $n$ is large enough ($n>8$) $$left|frac23 - 3n9 - n^2right| =frac3n-23n^2-9<frac3nn^2-9
          $$
          Also, if $n$ is this large, we have $n^2-9>left(fracn2right)^2$ so $$frac3nn^2-9<frac12nn^2=frac12n$$



          Therefore, it's enough to take $$n > maxleft(8,frac12epsilonright)$$



          NOTE



          I don't recommend doing it this way. You should just show the fraction goes to $0$ which guarantees the existence of such an $N$. Doing it this way is more tedious, no more rigorous, and in my view, adds nothing to understanding.







          share|cite|improve this answer













          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer











          answered Jul 24 at 23:54









          saulspatz

          10.4k21323




          10.4k21323




















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              If we take $n > 3+frac6varepsilon$ we have $ frac3n-3 < fracvarepsilon2$, and if we take $n > sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9$ we have $ frac14n^2-9 < fracvarepsilon2$.



              Therefore for $n ge maxleft4, 3+frac6varepsilon, sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9right$ we have



              beginalign
              left|frac2n^2-3n+59-n^2+2right| &= frac23-3n\
              &le frac3n+23(n+3)(n-3)\
              &= frac3(n+3)+14(n+3)(n-3)\
              &= frac3n-3 + frac14n^2-9\
              &< fracvarepsilon2 + fracvarepsilon2\
              &= varepsilon
              endalign






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                If we take $n > 3+frac6varepsilon$ we have $ frac3n-3 < fracvarepsilon2$, and if we take $n > sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9$ we have $ frac14n^2-9 < fracvarepsilon2$.



                Therefore for $n ge maxleft4, 3+frac6varepsilon, sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9right$ we have



                beginalign
                left|frac2n^2-3n+59-n^2+2right| &= frac23-3n\
                &le frac3n+23(n+3)(n-3)\
                &= frac3(n+3)+14(n+3)(n-3)\
                &= frac3n-3 + frac14n^2-9\
                &< fracvarepsilon2 + fracvarepsilon2\
                &= varepsilon
                endalign






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                  If we take $n > 3+frac6varepsilon$ we have $ frac3n-3 < fracvarepsilon2$, and if we take $n > sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9$ we have $ frac14n^2-9 < fracvarepsilon2$.



                  Therefore for $n ge maxleft4, 3+frac6varepsilon, sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9right$ we have



                  beginalign
                  left|frac2n^2-3n+59-n^2+2right| &= frac23-3n\
                  &le frac3n+23(n+3)(n-3)\
                  &= frac3(n+3)+14(n+3)(n-3)\
                  &= frac3n-3 + frac14n^2-9\
                  &< fracvarepsilon2 + fracvarepsilon2\
                  &= varepsilon
                  endalign






                  share|cite|improve this answer













                  If we take $n > 3+frac6varepsilon$ we have $ frac3n-3 < fracvarepsilon2$, and if we take $n > sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9$ we have $ frac14n^2-9 < fracvarepsilon2$.



                  Therefore for $n ge maxleft4, 3+frac6varepsilon, sqrtfrac28varepsilon + 9right$ we have



                  beginalign
                  left|frac2n^2-3n+59-n^2+2right| &= frac23-3n\
                  &le frac3n+23(n+3)(n-3)\
                  &= frac3(n+3)+14(n+3)(n-3)\
                  &= frac3n-3 + frac14n^2-9\
                  &< fracvarepsilon2 + fracvarepsilon2\
                  &= varepsilon
                  endalign







                  share|cite|improve this answer













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                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  answered Jul 24 at 23:54









                  mechanodroid

                  22.2k52041




                  22.2k52041






















                       

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