For what $a$ would the graphs of $y=a^x$ and $y=log_a x$ be tangent?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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Yesterday a question popped in my mind before going to sleep and I can't solve it (probably because my math knowledge is lacking).
Assuming there is a function
$$f(x) = a^x$$
Its inverse function would look like this:
$$f^-1(x) = log_a x$$
Question:
For which value of $a$ would the graphs of these two functions just touch at only one common point (of tangency)?
logarithms
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
Yesterday a question popped in my mind before going to sleep and I can't solve it (probably because my math knowledge is lacking).
Assuming there is a function
$$f(x) = a^x$$
Its inverse function would look like this:
$$f^-1(x) = log_a x$$
Question:
For which value of $a$ would the graphs of these two functions just touch at only one common point (of tangency)?
logarithms
2
I would prefer that you wrote $f(x)=a^x$ and $f^-1(y)=log_a y$. Also notice this forces $a>0, y>0$.
– Kevin
Jul 24 at 15:18
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
up vote
5
down vote
favorite
Yesterday a question popped in my mind before going to sleep and I can't solve it (probably because my math knowledge is lacking).
Assuming there is a function
$$f(x) = a^x$$
Its inverse function would look like this:
$$f^-1(x) = log_a x$$
Question:
For which value of $a$ would the graphs of these two functions just touch at only one common point (of tangency)?
logarithms
Yesterday a question popped in my mind before going to sleep and I can't solve it (probably because my math knowledge is lacking).
Assuming there is a function
$$f(x) = a^x$$
Its inverse function would look like this:
$$f^-1(x) = log_a x$$
Question:
For which value of $a$ would the graphs of these two functions just touch at only one common point (of tangency)?
logarithms
edited Jul 24 at 15:22


Blue
43.6k868141
43.6k868141
asked Jul 24 at 15:10


Agabagugba
384
384
2
I would prefer that you wrote $f(x)=a^x$ and $f^-1(y)=log_a y$. Also notice this forces $a>0, y>0$.
– Kevin
Jul 24 at 15:18
add a comment |Â
2
I would prefer that you wrote $f(x)=a^x$ and $f^-1(y)=log_a y$. Also notice this forces $a>0, y>0$.
– Kevin
Jul 24 at 15:18
2
2
I would prefer that you wrote $f(x)=a^x$ and $f^-1(y)=log_a y$. Also notice this forces $a>0, y>0$.
– Kevin
Jul 24 at 15:18
I would prefer that you wrote $f(x)=a^x$ and $f^-1(y)=log_a y$. Also notice this forces $a>0, y>0$.
– Kevin
Jul 24 at 15:18
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Such $a$ likely exists and is somewhere in the following range which can be narrowed down further: $$1.44lt a lt 1.45$$
EDIT: $$aapprox1.444667861, qquad xapprox 2.71827$$
Note that $x$ value is very close to $e$. I don't know how to explain it but it makes this problem really, really interesting!
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
Basically, the inverse function is obtained by finding the mirror image of $y=a^x$, in $y=x $ .Now note for both the function and its inverse to intersect at just one point, $y=x $ must be the common tangent to both of them. So slope of tangent of $y=a^x $ ,$y=log_a x$ and $y=x $ must be equal. So,$ 1=a^x ln a=ln xlog_a e $ now you have 3 equations and 2 unknowns one being 'a' and other being the value of $x $ at which the functions have only one point of intersection . solve finally to get $a^e=e $ which gives the value of $a $ approximately as 1.44.
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
According to a OEIS comment, the only base $a$ such that $exists xi in A subsetmathbb R: f(xi)=f^-1(xi)$ is $a=e^1/e$ with $xi=e$. Numerically this seems to be true, as Oldboy pointed out.
Whether that's unique (for any $a$) needs to be proven.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
As @Jasmine point out, because that $a^x$ and $log_ax$ are inverses we can add $x$ to get $x=a^x=log_ax$.
We can say more from this: $a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^x=x$ but also $x=a^x$ hence $a^a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^a^x$ and so on.
Hence we are searching for $a,x$ such that the sequence $x,a^x,a^a^x,cdots$ is a constant, $ainBbb R^+setminus1,xin Bbb R^+$.
As it is shown here we have that $e^-e leq a leq e^frac1e$ for $a^a^.^.^.$ to converge, hence, by taking the sequence and taking the $1/x$ power of it we get $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$, by guessing $e$ we can find that $x=e,a=e^frac1e$ works. But $x=e$ is not the only $x$ that works. Take any $x$ such that $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$ it can be shown that $x,a=x^frac1x$ are tuple that answer the condition of the post.
Edit, I realized that I made a mistake.
[$(a^a^...^x)^1/x=(a^a^...^x/x)ne (a^a^...)$, although it is interesting to see that if you continue with the logic of the mistake and find the $x$s where the 2 function "kiss" you get correct answer]
But given $x=a^x$ we have $x^1/x=a$(In analogy to the mistake, the maximum value of $x^1/x$ is $e^1/e$ at $x=e$).
As I said in the post $a=x^frac1x$ gives us $a^y=log_ay=y$, at $y=x$, but we also want them to be tangent so $(a^y)'mid_y=x=ln(a)a^x=frac1ln(a)x=(log_a(y))'mid_y=x$, we know that $a^x=x$ so $ln(a)a^x=ln(a)x$, let set $ln(a)x=z$ and we have $z=frac1zimplies z=pm1$, and so $ln(a)x=pm1impliesln(x^1/x)x=pm1impliesln(x)=pm1implies x=begincasese\1/eendcases\implies a=begincasese^1/e\(1/e)^eendcases$
(I think that OEIS made a mistake about uniqueness)
See here the graph of the four functions
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Such $a$ likely exists and is somewhere in the following range which can be narrowed down further: $$1.44lt a lt 1.45$$
EDIT: $$aapprox1.444667861, qquad xapprox 2.71827$$
Note that $x$ value is very close to $e$. I don't know how to explain it but it makes this problem really, really interesting!
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Such $a$ likely exists and is somewhere in the following range which can be narrowed down further: $$1.44lt a lt 1.45$$
EDIT: $$aapprox1.444667861, qquad xapprox 2.71827$$
Note that $x$ value is very close to $e$. I don't know how to explain it but it makes this problem really, really interesting!
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
Such $a$ likely exists and is somewhere in the following range which can be narrowed down further: $$1.44lt a lt 1.45$$
EDIT: $$aapprox1.444667861, qquad xapprox 2.71827$$
Note that $x$ value is very close to $e$. I don't know how to explain it but it makes this problem really, really interesting!
Such $a$ likely exists and is somewhere in the following range which can be narrowed down further: $$1.44lt a lt 1.45$$
EDIT: $$aapprox1.444667861, qquad xapprox 2.71827$$
Note that $x$ value is very close to $e$. I don't know how to explain it but it makes this problem really, really interesting!
edited Jul 24 at 16:34
answered Jul 24 at 15:47


Oldboy
2,6101316
2,6101316
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
add a comment |Â
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
Thank you very much for your answer! But is there any possible way to solve this without using a graphing program?
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:00
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
I doubt it, really.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:20
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
Oh okay.. Thank you anyways
– Agabagugba
Jul 24 at 16:33
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
I think the key question is: prove or disprove that touching point has $x=e$ . That would be something :) I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 16:36
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
Basically, the inverse function is obtained by finding the mirror image of $y=a^x$, in $y=x $ .Now note for both the function and its inverse to intersect at just one point, $y=x $ must be the common tangent to both of them. So slope of tangent of $y=a^x $ ,$y=log_a x$ and $y=x $ must be equal. So,$ 1=a^x ln a=ln xlog_a e $ now you have 3 equations and 2 unknowns one being 'a' and other being the value of $x $ at which the functions have only one point of intersection . solve finally to get $a^e=e $ which gives the value of $a $ approximately as 1.44.
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
Basically, the inverse function is obtained by finding the mirror image of $y=a^x$, in $y=x $ .Now note for both the function and its inverse to intersect at just one point, $y=x $ must be the common tangent to both of them. So slope of tangent of $y=a^x $ ,$y=log_a x$ and $y=x $ must be equal. So,$ 1=a^x ln a=ln xlog_a e $ now you have 3 equations and 2 unknowns one being 'a' and other being the value of $x $ at which the functions have only one point of intersection . solve finally to get $a^e=e $ which gives the value of $a $ approximately as 1.44.
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
6
down vote
up vote
6
down vote
Basically, the inverse function is obtained by finding the mirror image of $y=a^x$, in $y=x $ .Now note for both the function and its inverse to intersect at just one point, $y=x $ must be the common tangent to both of them. So slope of tangent of $y=a^x $ ,$y=log_a x$ and $y=x $ must be equal. So,$ 1=a^x ln a=ln xlog_a e $ now you have 3 equations and 2 unknowns one being 'a' and other being the value of $x $ at which the functions have only one point of intersection . solve finally to get $a^e=e $ which gives the value of $a $ approximately as 1.44.
Basically, the inverse function is obtained by finding the mirror image of $y=a^x$, in $y=x $ .Now note for both the function and its inverse to intersect at just one point, $y=x $ must be the common tangent to both of them. So slope of tangent of $y=a^x $ ,$y=log_a x$ and $y=x $ must be equal. So,$ 1=a^x ln a=ln xlog_a e $ now you have 3 equations and 2 unknowns one being 'a' and other being the value of $x $ at which the functions have only one point of intersection . solve finally to get $a^e=e $ which gives the value of $a $ approximately as 1.44.
edited Jul 24 at 17:00
answered Jul 24 at 16:40


Jasmine
322111
322111
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
add a comment |Â
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
Excellent, +1. I love MSE because it's constantly reminding me how dumb I know to be from time to time.
– Oldboy
Jul 24 at 18:21
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
According to a OEIS comment, the only base $a$ such that $exists xi in A subsetmathbb R: f(xi)=f^-1(xi)$ is $a=e^1/e$ with $xi=e$. Numerically this seems to be true, as Oldboy pointed out.
Whether that's unique (for any $a$) needs to be proven.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
According to a OEIS comment, the only base $a$ such that $exists xi in A subsetmathbb R: f(xi)=f^-1(xi)$ is $a=e^1/e$ with $xi=e$. Numerically this seems to be true, as Oldboy pointed out.
Whether that's unique (for any $a$) needs to be proven.
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
According to a OEIS comment, the only base $a$ such that $exists xi in A subsetmathbb R: f(xi)=f^-1(xi)$ is $a=e^1/e$ with $xi=e$. Numerically this seems to be true, as Oldboy pointed out.
Whether that's unique (for any $a$) needs to be proven.
According to a OEIS comment, the only base $a$ such that $exists xi in A subsetmathbb R: f(xi)=f^-1(xi)$ is $a=e^1/e$ with $xi=e$. Numerically this seems to be true, as Oldboy pointed out.
Whether that's unique (for any $a$) needs to be proven.
answered Jul 24 at 16:36
edmz
381211
381211
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
As @Jasmine point out, because that $a^x$ and $log_ax$ are inverses we can add $x$ to get $x=a^x=log_ax$.
We can say more from this: $a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^x=x$ but also $x=a^x$ hence $a^a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^a^x$ and so on.
Hence we are searching for $a,x$ such that the sequence $x,a^x,a^a^x,cdots$ is a constant, $ainBbb R^+setminus1,xin Bbb R^+$.
As it is shown here we have that $e^-e leq a leq e^frac1e$ for $a^a^.^.^.$ to converge, hence, by taking the sequence and taking the $1/x$ power of it we get $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$, by guessing $e$ we can find that $x=e,a=e^frac1e$ works. But $x=e$ is not the only $x$ that works. Take any $x$ such that $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$ it can be shown that $x,a=x^frac1x$ are tuple that answer the condition of the post.
Edit, I realized that I made a mistake.
[$(a^a^...^x)^1/x=(a^a^...^x/x)ne (a^a^...)$, although it is interesting to see that if you continue with the logic of the mistake and find the $x$s where the 2 function "kiss" you get correct answer]
But given $x=a^x$ we have $x^1/x=a$(In analogy to the mistake, the maximum value of $x^1/x$ is $e^1/e$ at $x=e$).
As I said in the post $a=x^frac1x$ gives us $a^y=log_ay=y$, at $y=x$, but we also want them to be tangent so $(a^y)'mid_y=x=ln(a)a^x=frac1ln(a)x=(log_a(y))'mid_y=x$, we know that $a^x=x$ so $ln(a)a^x=ln(a)x$, let set $ln(a)x=z$ and we have $z=frac1zimplies z=pm1$, and so $ln(a)x=pm1impliesln(x^1/x)x=pm1impliesln(x)=pm1implies x=begincasese\1/eendcases\implies a=begincasese^1/e\(1/e)^eendcases$
(I think that OEIS made a mistake about uniqueness)
See here the graph of the four functions
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
As @Jasmine point out, because that $a^x$ and $log_ax$ are inverses we can add $x$ to get $x=a^x=log_ax$.
We can say more from this: $a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^x=x$ but also $x=a^x$ hence $a^a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^a^x$ and so on.
Hence we are searching for $a,x$ such that the sequence $x,a^x,a^a^x,cdots$ is a constant, $ainBbb R^+setminus1,xin Bbb R^+$.
As it is shown here we have that $e^-e leq a leq e^frac1e$ for $a^a^.^.^.$ to converge, hence, by taking the sequence and taking the $1/x$ power of it we get $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$, by guessing $e$ we can find that $x=e,a=e^frac1e$ works. But $x=e$ is not the only $x$ that works. Take any $x$ such that $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$ it can be shown that $x,a=x^frac1x$ are tuple that answer the condition of the post.
Edit, I realized that I made a mistake.
[$(a^a^...^x)^1/x=(a^a^...^x/x)ne (a^a^...)$, although it is interesting to see that if you continue with the logic of the mistake and find the $x$s where the 2 function "kiss" you get correct answer]
But given $x=a^x$ we have $x^1/x=a$(In analogy to the mistake, the maximum value of $x^1/x$ is $e^1/e$ at $x=e$).
As I said in the post $a=x^frac1x$ gives us $a^y=log_ay=y$, at $y=x$, but we also want them to be tangent so $(a^y)'mid_y=x=ln(a)a^x=frac1ln(a)x=(log_a(y))'mid_y=x$, we know that $a^x=x$ so $ln(a)a^x=ln(a)x$, let set $ln(a)x=z$ and we have $z=frac1zimplies z=pm1$, and so $ln(a)x=pm1impliesln(x^1/x)x=pm1impliesln(x)=pm1implies x=begincasese\1/eendcases\implies a=begincasese^1/e\(1/e)^eendcases$
(I think that OEIS made a mistake about uniqueness)
See here the graph of the four functions
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
As @Jasmine point out, because that $a^x$ and $log_ax$ are inverses we can add $x$ to get $x=a^x=log_ax$.
We can say more from this: $a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^x=x$ but also $x=a^x$ hence $a^a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^a^x$ and so on.
Hence we are searching for $a,x$ such that the sequence $x,a^x,a^a^x,cdots$ is a constant, $ainBbb R^+setminus1,xin Bbb R^+$.
As it is shown here we have that $e^-e leq a leq e^frac1e$ for $a^a^.^.^.$ to converge, hence, by taking the sequence and taking the $1/x$ power of it we get $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$, by guessing $e$ we can find that $x=e,a=e^frac1e$ works. But $x=e$ is not the only $x$ that works. Take any $x$ such that $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$ it can be shown that $x,a=x^frac1x$ are tuple that answer the condition of the post.
Edit, I realized that I made a mistake.
[$(a^a^...^x)^1/x=(a^a^...^x/x)ne (a^a^...)$, although it is interesting to see that if you continue with the logic of the mistake and find the $x$s where the 2 function "kiss" you get correct answer]
But given $x=a^x$ we have $x^1/x=a$(In analogy to the mistake, the maximum value of $x^1/x$ is $e^1/e$ at $x=e$).
As I said in the post $a=x^frac1x$ gives us $a^y=log_ay=y$, at $y=x$, but we also want them to be tangent so $(a^y)'mid_y=x=ln(a)a^x=frac1ln(a)x=(log_a(y))'mid_y=x$, we know that $a^x=x$ so $ln(a)a^x=ln(a)x$, let set $ln(a)x=z$ and we have $z=frac1zimplies z=pm1$, and so $ln(a)x=pm1impliesln(x^1/x)x=pm1impliesln(x)=pm1implies x=begincasese\1/eendcases\implies a=begincasese^1/e\(1/e)^eendcases$
(I think that OEIS made a mistake about uniqueness)
See here the graph of the four functions
As @Jasmine point out, because that $a^x$ and $log_ax$ are inverses we can add $x$ to get $x=a^x=log_ax$.
We can say more from this: $a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^x=x$ but also $x=a^x$ hence $a^a^x=log_a ximplies a^a^a^x$ and so on.
Hence we are searching for $a,x$ such that the sequence $x,a^x,a^a^x,cdots$ is a constant, $ainBbb R^+setminus1,xin Bbb R^+$.
As it is shown here we have that $e^-e leq a leq e^frac1e$ for $a^a^.^.^.$ to converge, hence, by taking the sequence and taking the $1/x$ power of it we get $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$, by guessing $e$ we can find that $x=e,a=e^frac1e$ works. But $x=e$ is not the only $x$ that works. Take any $x$ such that $x^frac1xin[e^-e,e^frac1e]$ it can be shown that $x,a=x^frac1x$ are tuple that answer the condition of the post.
Edit, I realized that I made a mistake.
[$(a^a^...^x)^1/x=(a^a^...^x/x)ne (a^a^...)$, although it is interesting to see that if you continue with the logic of the mistake and find the $x$s where the 2 function "kiss" you get correct answer]
But given $x=a^x$ we have $x^1/x=a$(In analogy to the mistake, the maximum value of $x^1/x$ is $e^1/e$ at $x=e$).
As I said in the post $a=x^frac1x$ gives us $a^y=log_ay=y$, at $y=x$, but we also want them to be tangent so $(a^y)'mid_y=x=ln(a)a^x=frac1ln(a)x=(log_a(y))'mid_y=x$, we know that $a^x=x$ so $ln(a)a^x=ln(a)x$, let set $ln(a)x=z$ and we have $z=frac1zimplies z=pm1$, and so $ln(a)x=pm1impliesln(x^1/x)x=pm1impliesln(x)=pm1implies x=begincasese\1/eendcases\implies a=begincasese^1/e\(1/e)^eendcases$
(I think that OEIS made a mistake about uniqueness)
See here the graph of the four functions
edited Aug 6 at 21:46
answered Jul 24 at 17:09


Holo
4,1672528
4,1672528
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2
I would prefer that you wrote $f(x)=a^x$ and $f^-1(y)=log_a y$. Also notice this forces $a>0, y>0$.
– Kevin
Jul 24 at 15:18